Frisco Pullman Sleeper Cars

Here is a start.

http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/heavyweight-pax-car-rosters-frisco.854/#post-5263

 

1956 Heavyweight Pullman Assignments

A 1956 roster lists only the following heavyweight cars.

All the cars were acquired from Pullman in December of 1948, as a result of the 1940 anti-trust lawsuit, and leased back to Pullman. The roster states that they have been painted red and silver with shadow stripes. The roster lists these cars as Frisco cars, so I think one can safely assume that they were lettered Frisco.

The Frisco owned more than these 12 heavyweight cars, and leased them back to Pullman. I did not compile a complete list of Frisco-own Pullmans but for example, 12-1, Plan 3410, sleeper "McZena", was retired in June, 1962, and 10-1-2, Plan 2585 sleeper "Badger State", was retired in July 1962. It still leaves the question of how were these other cars lettered unanswered. I will continue to poke around.

Note that the sleeper "Magdalen Tower" was rebuilt into baggage car SLSF 446. The car later saw MOW service as a tool car on the Springfield wrecker. The distinctive roof line was easy to spot.

 

In the case of the Pullmans assigned to trains No 709-710, they were 10 section 3 double bedroom, 10-3, cars "Villa Superb" and "Villa Peerless".

They were originally painted in the red and silver shadow line scheme, but later simplified to just red and silver but without the shadow lining.

They had "Frisco" centered on the letterboard and small "Pullman" above the vestibules.

I would assume that the other Pullmans were similarly lettered.

Gordon Mott

 

To clarify, I have seen enough photographs of Frisco heavyweight Pullmans to feel confident that all of those that were painted in red and silver, whether with shadow lines or the later version without, all carried "Frisco" in the letterboard with small "Pullman" near the vestibules.

The one exception was 12-1, Plan 3410A, sleeper "McZena" which was Frisco-owned but lettered for the Texas Special.

However, there were quite a number of other Pullman cars that were transferred to Frisco ownership in the 1948 divesture that, as far as I know, remained in Pullman green or perhaps even in TTG.

I suspect, but cannot prove, that these retained their original Pullman lettering.

If the original objective of this thread was to support putting gold "Frisco" in the letterboard of Walthers Pullman green cars, it has not done that.

And frankly, I think you would be on thin ice so doing without someone coming up with a photograph of a prototype to prove it.

Gordon

 

Assignment car lists were published about every six months by D. R. Culver of the Pullman Company and sent to transportation departments, passenger traffic departments of each railroad.

Has anyone discovered a Pullman assignment car list for Frisco cars?

I need to know what Frisco cars were assigned to Pullman Line 3415, Chicago-Oklahoma City, at any time prior to the Line's cutback to St. Louis-Oklahoma City.

Larry T
St. Louis

 

Jerome,

I would be very interested in learning how successful you were in using the shadow line decals.

I have not gotten up the courage yet to attempt it myself and anything that you could share from your experience would certainly be appreciated.

Incidentally, whose red and what brand paint are you using?

Also, what did or will you do regarding decals for the lettering on your car?

Unfortunately, the Oddball Decals set is of very limited use as it only provides the "FRISCO" for the letterboard. Even that is, I think, marginally too large though useable.

But it does not include the "Pullman" necessary for near the vestibule doors nor, of course, any appropriate car names.

Gordon

 

Jerome,

Very impressive work. I particularly like your dining car "Kansas City".

In an earlier post, you said you used a Rivarossi Pullman.

Is that the regular Rivarossi heavyweight Pullman that comes with a set?

I picked up a set cheap a while ago, and I am trying to decide what to do with them.

 

Hello Jerome,

I see your post is nearly a year old.

I just joined the FL this morning 8/31/2007, but I do have some information regarding Frisco lettering on heavyweight Pullmans if you are still interested. I have a few grainy photographs circa 1960 of some Frisco Pullmans stored at Springfield, MO.

I am not sure of the configurations of the cars 8-1-2, 10-1-2, etc., but from photographs here is what I have.

Cars P G T Beauregard, Magdalen Tower, Villa Peerless, Norwich University and Drake University are in the red and silver scheme, no shadow stripe. Large "Frisco" centered in letterboard, car name centered in pier panel below. Small "Pullman" at each end of letterboard has been painted over.

Cars Rathaus Tower, Smith College and Villa Superb same as above, except small Pullman lettering at each end of letterboard still showing.

Car SLSF 1810, which I believe is ex-Trinity College, is painted red and silver, with no shadow stripe and has large "Frisco" centered on letterboard. The small "Pullman" name at each car end and the car name have been painted over and the number "1810" with very small "SL-SF" reporting marks beneath are centered over each truck.

These last cars are painted Pullman green.

Car SLSF 1809 has only the numbers and small "SL-SF" centered over the trucks. The Pullman name and car name have been painted over, I suppose in Pullman green.

Cars Lynafield, Laidlaw and McVille have the large Pullman name covered with what looks to be an aluminum panel with only the car name showing.

Regards,

Tom

 

Here is a spreadsheet of Frisco heavyweight Pullman cars I put together a few years ago.

Doug

 

I purchased a compact disk (CD) of Frisco photographs which contained a color photograph of a heavyweight sleeper.

These is no information about the photographs included. The car is clearly an 8 section, drawing room, 2 compartment, 8-DR-2, car. This would make it either the Robert F. Hoke, Rock Run, Rock Park, or the P. G. T. Beauregard.

The car is painted red and silver with shadow lining, and lettered FRISCO with small PULLMAN at each vestibule. Unfortunately the car name is not legible.

Earlier in this thread a photograph of the Robert F. Hoke is mentioned as showing it as red and silver without shadow lining.

Anyone have any idea which car this might be?

Likewise in the book Trackside Around St. Louis, page 105, a photograph shows a 12 section 2 double bedroom, 12-2, sleeper which would have to be Drake University or Norwich University.

It is painted the same except no shadow lining. Again the car name is not legible.

Any idea which car this is?

 

Larry,

In my set of Frisco Pullman photographs the following Frisco Pullmans are painted in red and silver with no shadow line stripes: Magdalen Tower, Smith College, Villa Superb, Villa Peerless, P G T Beauregard, Rathaus Tower, Drake University, Norwich University and SLSF 1810 (ex-Trinity College) which has had the car name painted over.

I soon hope to post some photographs and I mentioned in my post below.

There were others painted red and silver - Robert F Hoke, Amherst College, and Drury College and maybe more? I do not have a list handy as to what configuration there cars were, 10-3, 12-2, etc..

Most sources I have heard and read say that the red and silver Frisco Pullmans were not shadow striped, but there was at least one that was. See Marre and Sommers' book Frisco In Color, page 120 coupled to heavyweight diner "Birmingham".

Tom

 

I had forgotten about that photograph in the book Frisco in Color.

If you look closely, the car number is visible in the window, namely 69. In the book Night Trains, the three sleepers on the Kansas City Florida Special in March 1952 were S67 an 8 section-5 double bedroom sleeper, S68 a 14 roomette-4 double bedroom, 14-4 sleeper, and car S69 a 10 section-2 bedroom-1 compartment, 10-2-1, sleeper.

If car S69 was still the same type of car in July 1955, the date of Frisco in Color book photograph, then the car would have to be a "College" series sleeper. And since my photograph is an 8 section-drawing room-2 compartment, 8-DR-2 car, that would suggest that there were at least two cars with shadow line paint.

Maybe we will figure this out eventually.