Clinton sub passenger trains

Discussion in 'General' started by Frisco2008, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. John Sanders

    John Sanders Member

    Karl, Here is a scan of the line pole at 2400 dpi. I don't see a number, but perhaps tweaking contrast and brightness could bring it out. This was a wire photo which appears to have pretty rough resolution.

    Chris, I had photocopied some records before the museum closed. The modernized Americans show retirement dates of April 1947 (184), July 1950 (182), April 1951 (183), and Sept 1951 (1985 & 1986). Engine 187 has no retirement date listed.
    John Sanders
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    Thanks, John; I'll see if photoshop can help with a location. I have a 1950 diagram book, which lists 183, 185 & 186 as still active. In the margin of the diagram there is a revision date of 11/17/43, which is not long after the derailment on the Clinton Sub. We might reasonably surmise that 187 did not survive the derailment.

    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  3. rcmck

    rcmck Member Supporter

    Two observations/questions:

    Were outside-truss (hope this is the correct term) passenger cars still numerous, on the Frisco, 1943, or were they becoming extinct and relegated to secondary mainline service, due to wartime traffic?

    The third car in the photo - I don't see it with my 52 year-old eyeballs. Could it be visibly covered up by the skewed postion of the second car?

    Interesting photo - thank you for sharing with us!

    Bob McKeighan
    Lenexa, KS
  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Bob, I think you might be seeing the truss rods on the bottoms of the RPO and trailing coach?

    Here's my thinking: it's my understand that truss rods were only present on rolling stock of wood construction that lacked steel underframes.

    The 1943 Annual Report excerpts that Ken Wulfert just posted list 20 passenger cars of wood construction. 2 of those are listed with steel underframes. Hence, I'd hazard a guess that about 18 passenger cars still possessed wooden underframes with truss rods.

    Hopefully someone can fact-check my conjecture. I'm not sure as to assignments for these cars, but I think your thought is pretty accurate: that is, they were mostly used in branch service. While I don't have it handy, I think Frisco Power has some photos. I'll try to double-check.

    Best Regards,
  5. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Going to bump this thread, after giving more consideration about modeling the Clinton Sub in general, and Clinton in particular. Even with Mark Davidson's earlier posts in support of modeling the aforementioned locations, it's taken me a while to really see the potential here.

    What has really caught my attention is the photos previous posted by Tom G.:

    Clinton sub passenger trains

    Clinton sub passenger trains
    along with Mark's excellent description, to wit:

    While I've always been intrigued by Frisco passenger power and trains, it doesn't seem appealing to me to just model a train and then run it from point to point on a layout, with a stop at each station. I like switching. My current layout space and resources on my KC Northern Division - or Olathe, KS as it stands right now - isn't conducive to even a truncated version of KC Union Station. I'd even toyed around with just modeling passenger ops either there or at the Springfield depot. Ken McElreath's modeling of the Birmingham, Alabama is an inspiring example of what can be done with a larger passenger terminal. Still, having some balanced freight w/passenger operations is still desirable for me.

    That brings me back to Clinton. Trains 20/21 as noted above not only allow for modeling a reasonable-sized passenger run, but also for some passenger switching in Clinton thanks to the chicken train. In other words, the old cliché of having one's cake and eating it, too.

    As an added bonus, the possibilities for motive power on 20/21 are endless. I think I've seen evidence across a 10-20 year period of ten-wheelers, 4-4-0s, Bolsheviks, Pacifics, GP-7s, Redbirds and even Bull Mooses.

    As a separate aside, I've always enjoyed the idea of interlocking plants/towers and the automatic pacing that they can provide for model operations. There's another checkbox in favor of Clinton.

    Best Regards,
    rcmck and Joe Lovett like this.
  6. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    I have found additional information about the derailment. It occurred at Holmes, MP D18.0, which can be seen in the photo. A pair of seven-year olds, and boy and girl, jiggled the lock, which fell open. They manged to throw the switch, and then continued homeward from school. They had no idea that their act would cause a derailment. The children and their parents were taken before a Jackson County juvenile court, not for prosecution, but for a severe ass chewing.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  7. palallin

    palallin Member

    My question is, who took the pics from what platform?
  8. palallin

    palallin Member

    Interpreting B&W photography is always a delicate task, but can anybody explain the apparent light coloring of the sides of the cars?

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