Clinton sub passenger trains

Discussion in 'General' started by Frisco2008, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. Donald Kaiser

    Donald Kaiser Member

    My layout has not progressed much lately. I guess it
    because of to many irons in the fire. I've got anothe
    you might be interested in.

    Don Kaiser

    Frisco #21 North of Clinton.jpg
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  2. dricketts

    dricketts Member Supporter

    Wow! That's incredible! As far as I know there's very little photographs of any steam on the Clinton sub.
  3. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    Great "pike size" passenger train.

  4. trainsignguy

    trainsignguy Member Supporter

    Another great photo of the High Line. Suppose all those head end cars are full of baby chicks?

    Dale Rush
    Carthage, MO
  5. Donald Kaiser

    Donald Kaiser Member

    Maybe Dale. a couple of the head end cars may be going
    to Clinton for baby chick loading, i remember when the
    baby chich business was in full bloom, there were
    several bagage cars parked behind the depot at Clinton.

    Don K.
  6. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Dale, you were a step ahead of me. I can't make out from the photos whether any of these would have been a dedicated "chicken car," but it seems plausible. Definitely the first time I've seen a photo of a Pacific on the High Line. I've seen plenty of the Bolsheviks, and I believe there's even a photo in Frisco Power of the Frisco's Own Four-Aces ten-wheeler departing KCUS.

    The barn in the background is also a real dilly, but I won't wax on about it. :)

    Thanks, Don...

    Best Regards,
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    Prior the the discontinuance of trains 21/20, I think that it would be accurate to say that the express-baggage cars used in Chick Service between Clinton and KCUS may not have been specifically "dedicated" for this service. That is, any suitable baggage car could have been used for this service. After trains 21/20 were discontinued, trains 59/58 took over the job of handling this traffic, and since there was no way to heat the cars while in mixed service, the Frisco equipped the famous chicken cars with hot-water heaters. The heaters were necessary since "Chick Season" ran from January through early July.

    The Little Ten Hundreds seemed to be standard power during the war years. (I have a picture of one at Clinton posted somewhere on this site, as well as a train order which lists a Little Ten Hundred. Stagner's first Frisco book also has an image of a Little Ten Hundred with 20 or 21). It seems that post-war and during the transition period power assignments became varied, and included 1100's, Bolsheviks, 182's, and no doubt others.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  8. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    Looks like the first two baggage cars in the consist are the older truss rod type (For "chicks" ??) and the last two cars are the "usual" consist for the highline train: 15' RPO-baggage car + a coach.

    Tom G.
  9. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Karl, thanks very much for the explanation and clarification. I am slowly accumulating a dossier on the chick service to use on our rendition of the KC area; this adds a lot to that, and eliminates a little more of my ignorance.

    Or, at least it shores up my shaky memory. Now that I look through some of my notes, I see where 6 old cars were rebuilt in 1955-56 for chick traffic. I think this may be your data, Karl, but I don't have it attributed in my notes and can't locate the post here.

    Come 2013, what will Texans do who want to watch National League baseball?

    Best Regards,
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
  10. Donald Kaiser

    Donald Kaiser Member

    Couple of highwater photos-Frisco engine 443, with passenger
    train, pulling throught the high waters of the Osage River at Osceola, Mo. in 1927.

    The other photo is taken at Blairstown, Mo. and the culprit
    this time was the Grand River. No Date.

    Don Kaiser
    Clinton, Mo.

    Highwater at Blairstown.jpg
    Osage Highwaater 1927-`.jpg
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  11. dricketts

    dricketts Member Supporter

    Incredible photos Don. I can't believe they even attempted to keep pushing forward.

    After studying the photos in with a little more scrutiny, I wonder if I might have found the location of one photo. Compare the landscape in the background of the photo I took this winter standing on the Highline along Gallinipper Creek looking south towards the Osage. The line rounded the hill in the distance to the left, across the Osage, and to the Osceola depot. My photo would have been very close to mile marker 114.

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2012
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  12. Donald Kaiser

    Donald Kaiser Member

    You may be right about the location. It sure looks like it.

    Don Kaiser
    Clinton, Mo.
  13. dricketts

    dricketts Member Supporter

    Maybe, maybe not but it sure is fun trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I suspect the area around mile marker 114 was prone to flooding. Both the Highline and KCCS high track beds can still be seen today through this area. You can see the tall KCCS track bed to the left in my photo.
  14. Donald Kaiser

    Donald Kaiser Member

    Several years ago a Frisco engineer that live in Clinron told me that they would have a pile of wood on each side of the Flooded area and
    if their firebox got swanped, they would have something to start a new fire with. I can't imagine going through the water not knowing
    what might be submerged under the water. He also said that they would move about 3 mph through the water.

    Don K.
    Clinton, Mo
  15. dricketts

    dricketts Member Supporter

    I did a quick overlay of both pics with photoshop. Today there is a gravel access road from Hwy 13 to Gallinipper creek for a public conservation area. Maybe there was an access at this point to the creek in 1929 also. This might explain the original photographs viewpoint.

    Highwater marker 114.jpg
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  16. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Indeed. While it's hard to tell from the back of the heads of the passengers, there seems to be more trepidiation in the passengers than there is in the conductor. One has to think that they were pretty sure that there were no washouts before hauling paying customers through there.

    This trip would not have been for the faint of heart. Or for traction motors.

    Can anyone identify what the "pipe" on the top of the coach would be? My guess is some sort of grab iron, but it almost looks too thick.

    Best Regards,
  17. John Sanders

    John Sanders Member

    Here is a wartime accident on the outskirts of Kansas City. No one was badly hurt. A friend in Chicago located this news photo in an antique store. Someone put a lot of wire service photos on the market up there about 12 years ago.

    John Sanders
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  18. pbender

    pbender Member Supporter

    And 187 pictured in the photo John just posted was one of the modernized 4-4-0s.

  19. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    Thanks John. Can you get a higher-res image. There is a mile post on the telegraph pole at the far right.
  20. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Wow. That's a humdinger. Thanks very much for sharing with the crew, John.

    What was the disposition of 187 after this accident? Repair or scrap?

    Best Regards,

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