Discussion in 'General' started by trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017), Oct 22, 2014.

  1. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Look at this picture I found of a storage yard. http://www.gmrg.org.au/images/wall-const-2009-04_01.jpg
    For future reference, in HO scale, what kind of turnouts would I need to do something like this with code 100 track. Keep in mind I have a Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 and an SD40-2 that would need to make the turns. Thanks in advance for the input. - Brandon
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2014
  2. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The photo appears to have been removed. However, in general I would say that the 4-8-2 would be happier, and so would anything longer than 40' cars, if you used #6 turnouts (#4s would be a problem, though probably not for the SD40). I would use #8s if you are planning on main line crossovers.

  3. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    The yard in the other pic wasn't anywhere near this long and it wasn't snap track on plasitc road bed as this one appears to be, but turnouts on each end of the yard like this is what I had in mind. By #4, #6, & #8, are you refering to the Mark IV turnouts from Atlas? http://www.atlasrr.com/Trackmisc/hocode100.htm - Brandon
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2014
  4. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Greg's advice is very good, the bigger the better, for cars and engines. One thing to remember, a little fall into the bowl tracks, will help, so the cars do not roll out. The term Bowl, in railroad language of course refers to yard tracks that are high on both ends and lower in the middle, so cars do not roll out of the yard.
  5. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The numbers refer to are the frog angle and not any particular brand of manufacture. #4 = a 1 in 4 angle or about 14 deg 15 mins; #6= a 1 in 6 angle or about 9 degrees 32 mins, etc.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2014
  6. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Thanks Karl, again right on target. In laymen terms, you would measure back on the frog tread, any number, so if the measurement say is 2 inches across the frog tread, just measure to the 3 inch mark across the frog tread. If it is about 8 inches then its a No. 8 frog, 10 inches is a No. 10 frog. Like Karl said 1 inch of spread for the number of the frog.
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Neither am I advocating trespassing on railroad property, nor am I advocating walking on the rail, but if one were to go to the heel of the frog where one's foot is exactly the distance between rails of the frog heel. From that point, walk heel to toe until one reaches the point of frog. The number of heel to toe steps will equal the frog number.
  8. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Let's make this a little simpler. When you go to the hobby store, or on line, or wherever you are planning to buy your turnouts, the number (4,6,8) will be clearly identified on the package. You don't need to measure anything unless you are hand-laying turnouts.

  9. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    OK. The degree of the curve decreases as the number of the turnout increases. So, is there any one brand of turnout that is preferred over the rest and if so, why? Also, to start a yard, would I have to do anything besides simply place the turnouts end to end? With a left turnout from the main, could i simply put a bunch of right turnouts end to end, starting at the left turnout and visa versa on the other end?
  10. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    OK, OK ... I'm just going to have to look for the numbers on the box!
    For someone who was versed in vectors, chords, great circles, degrees, and minutes ... I have no idea what a frog heel or tread is?
    Can you explain that a little?
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Yes, that is true, but it is better to say that as the frog number increases the frog angle decreases. The diverging route of a turnout is not a circular curve, so the curve radius is commonly described as a curve equivalent or replacement radius. See the attached Frisco table. When looking at the prototype data it is clear to see the compression required when modeling the track structure. The Frisco used number 15's and 20's for passing tracks and cross-overs between mailines. On the KC Sub the Number 20's had curved points, and trains were allowed 50/55 mph through the diverging route. In HO scale, a number 20 is over 31 inches an length.

    The track centers in your yard will dictate the spacing linear spacing of your turnouts. Use of a scale drawing or a full-sized drawing on craft paper will help with this dimension. Or even just lay the track components on the road bed before tacking them down. When designing a yard lead, the two key diemesion to know are the frog angle and the distance between the point of switch and the point of intersection. These dimensions may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

    Lots of folks swear by Peco; I haved used Shinohara now Wathers with success, others hand lay everything. Since you are a DC guy, the Altas brand may suit your needs.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2015
  12. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Brandon, spend a little time searching railroad yards on the 'net.
    There are many ways to configure the yard ladder as it is called. The simplest is what you describe. If you are building a double-ended yard, that simple ladder with the leads on the same side of the yard will yield yard tracks of decreasing length. If the yard leads are on opposite sides of the yard, then the yard tracks will be of equal length.
  13. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Sherrel, don't think too much about it, us track guys like Karl and I, just like talking about track.
    Short story, like Greg said the larger the number of switch, the better the cars will go through it without trouble. As Keith said you can have a normal ladder or a reverse ladder, the track centers will differ some. Old yards had 12 to 13 foot centers and more modern centers are 15 foot. Short story, anything you want.
  14. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Again, to simplify: Do not worry about frog heel, frog tread, any of that. I have been in this hobby for more than 50(!) years and do not know the answer to any of those questions. Also, I use DCC and have had no problem with Atlas track. Some people have other preferences. My only caveat would be to pick a brand and stay with it, if only for compatibility's sake. As far as spacing goes, figure 2 inches center-to-center for parallel main line or yard tracks. The suggestion about reversing the ladders for a double-ended yard is a good one if you can do it. Otherwise you will end up with some short tracks on one side of the yard.

  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    FYI, to be safe on long curves with parallel tracks, I used 2.5" spacing between centers on the curves. I found 2" centers on the curves (22" & 20" radius respectively on our "layout") resulted in passing passenger cars being uncomfortably close on the turns. And, I use Athearn passenger cars, which are shorter than scale length.

  16. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    I will PM you.
  17. pensive

    pensive Member Frisco.org Supporter

  18. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    My largest steam locomotive, a 4-8-2, has 4 axles, each 6 feet apart.
    I assume that's an 18' rigid wheel base... but I'm not sure if that' the way to measure the rigid wheel base of a steam locomotive.

    My largest diesel locomotive, an SD40-2, has six-axle trucks and is 68 feet, 10 inches long.
    http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data EMD SD40-2.HTML

    According to the chart at http://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/rp-11.pdf, I would need at least a number 6 turnout.

    The chart and the specs were very helpful. Thanks. - Brandon
  19. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    I recently discovered the existence of Mark 2 and Mark 3 turnouts through ebay. Some, if not all of their turnouts have metal frogs. Are turnouts with metal frogs old but good or should I avoid buying them? I had never heard of a metal frog until this week and my research was inconclusive. Someone enlighten me please. Thanks. - Brandon
  20. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I'm in the process of relaying the west end of Newburg. I've moved the west switch back west about 4' and am using a No. 10 Walthers and a No. 8 right behind it for the drill track and roundhouse lead. Will give more room for switching the west end without fouling the main. Should have done it that way in the beginning, but for some reason I didn't do it. Code 83 main into Code 70 through Newburg and the yard. Hope it works smoother.

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