Reasonable Models of Frisco Heavyweights?

Discussion in 'Passenger Equipment' started by klrwhizkid, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Okay, I am struggling with finding appropriate models (other than ones made of unobtainium[brass]) to fit the bill.
    All heavyweights:
    Buffet Coach

    Are there any currently available models that are reasonable facsimiles of what I am looking for (Branchline, Walthers, Rivarossi, etc)?
    For a 'beginner", deciphering the mass of data and trying to cross-reference the differences in terminology is difficult.

    I don't think that I am the only one befuddled.
  2. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    The Athearn heavyweight baggage is correct for a very small number of baggage cars. I think just about everything else will need to be kitbashed. Ken McElreath is the expert on passenger equipment.

    Ship IT on the Frisco!

  3. mark

    mark Member


    By the early 1950's and through the 1960's the Frisco's passenger trains were dominated by head end equipment. For more modern times (1960's onward), consider both express boxcars and baggage cars in silver paint for maintenance of way service.

    Fortunately, Walthers has 2 styles of cars appropriate for Frisco's former 50' troop sleeper express boxcar conversions. Please see the following:

    SLSL 450-451

    SLSF 452-464, maintenance of way SLSF 109149, 109158 (Scale Car)

    Their 70' baggage / mail storage car is a good candidate. For an interesting variation, consider replacing the clerestory style roof with one from their heavyweight paired window coach that has a "modernized" or "balloon" style roof. Please see the following:

    SLSF 348, maintenance of way SLSF 109121 and others with "clerestory" style roofs

    SLSF 355, 360, 430, 436, 444, maintenance of way SLSF 109105, 109142 and others with "balloon" style roofs (substitute coach roof on car above)

    Rivarossi has a 60' baggage car that also looks like a good candidate. Please see the following:

    SLSF 306, 322 and others (add king pins and truss rods)

    Their former Railway Post Office (RPO), now part of Walthers Trainline, is similar to several owned by the Frisco. Please see:

    SLSF 2045

    Hope this helps.


    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009
  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Keith -
    I concur with Rick's note; I picked up a "turtle back" coach way back when that is slowly being hacked into a 700-series coach.

    Meanwhile I have a bunch of Uncle Pete Spectrum heavyweight cars from my father in law that, upon closer examination, will take a pretty serious amount of cutting!

    Thankfully, Ken McElreath's article(s) in the old FMIG newsletters, and the bevy of prototype pictures on this site make it a bit easier for one wishing to put in the "sweat equity."

    Best Regards,
  5. cnwtrainman

    cnwtrainman Member Supporter

    According to our old FMIG newsletters the Athearn HW buffet lounge is close to a FRISCO car. If you can find any of the old Walthers baggage car kits they are also a dead ringer. Branchline has done a bunch of sleepers in HO and they should be close to spot on especially the 12-1's. Charlie Post at Show Me Model Railroad (Grandview, Mo) has printed up some FRISCO heavyweight AThearn cars and did a real good job!
    In N scale I believe Wheels of Time is just now coming out with a heavyweight baggage for FRISCO in N scale.

    Dave Lindquist
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2009
  6. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Thanks for the responses, it sure makes it easier. My time is divided between travel (every other week), my railroading hobby, and family. Most of the time the railroading is consigned to evenings after 8 and Saturdays.
  7. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    Branchline's HO 78' paired window coach would make a passable model for the Frisco's 1923 AC&F monitor roof coaches (770-775).

  8. w3hodoug

    w3hodoug 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    I continue, slowly, modeling 773 using an ancient Walthers kit. It and two sisters were used on the Will Rogers until the lightweight coaches, which they used at the end of the train's life. The rest of the train was head-end cars for the mail.
  9. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Speaking of Frisco No's 3 & 4, The Will Rogers, and its consist .....

    Attached is a set of pictures I took in February/March 1964 during my Senior year at MSM in Rolla. I only lived about three blocks from the SLSF tracks and decided to take a study break before going to lunch (it's obvious I was a 2nd semester senior!). I walked down to the tracks with an ancient Brownie camera I had borrowed from my dad and positioned myself at the old wooden bridge that spans the tracks down from the Rolla depot on the curve. (The bridge is still there - preserved as a monument).

    Along came No. 3, on time at about 11:20am after its stop in Rolla. You can see it was headed up by SLSF 2007, Whirlaway, not the most frequently photographed Frisco Racehorse, so that was a bonus. Also note the first coach is a lightweight car, followed by a heavyweight. The HW car on the tail was usually populated by US Army troops going down to Ft Wood, while the general public usually rode in the forward car, be it a LW or HW.

    Also note, as Doug suggested above, that much of the "Will" was made up of head-end baggage and express cars.

    At the end of the curve on the going away shot, the track straightens out to go over the US 63 overpass. The shots are in the wrong order in the scan - the shot of SLSF 2007 on the head end was the first one taken. No 3 ran from St Louis to Oklahoma during the day. No. 9, The Meteor, made the same run at night.

    Sorry about the poor photos - I'm still not much of a photographer! This is the first time these prints have been "published".

    I'm sorry to report that during my four years at MSM, I only took about 5-6 pics of the Frisco. For shame! Dr. Mike Condren did a lot better job of it than I did.


    Attached Files:

  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    DANDY PHOTO, Ken! Thanks for sharing - the shot of the tail end is priceless - not too many pics that I've seen that show the full consist that well, especially from this angle.

    Do you know the # of the car on the end?

    Best Regards,
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Chris -

    No, I don't know the numbers of any of the cars in the consist. I never paid any attention to that once I got the locomotive number noted. Why worry about the car numbers? - after all, they will be around forever, right? Yeah, right!

    If I didn't know it was me taking the pic, I might have thought I was the guy riding at the tail end in the vestibule. I used to sneak back there whenever I could on #4 when I was coming home to StL for a weekend. It was harder to get back there on #9 going back down to Rolla. On #4 they didn't care as long as the last car was open and not dedicated to the US Army.

    Tom Galbraith is looking at these pics to see if he can get an idea of what that rear coach was. Tom will have a lot better chance of identifying it than I would.

  12. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    I've been doing some passenger train "forensics" on Ken's Will Rogers photo. The only things I can really tell for sure about the tail-end car are: (1) It has vestibules at both ends and (2) It has a Frisco home-built "turtle-back" roof.
    I can't tell if the car has "paired" or single windows. Some of the Frisco cars with two vestibules could be from the 1060, 1070 or 1080 class "coaches" or the 750 or 760 class "chair cars."
    There are "paired" and "single" window cars in all the above groups (750, 760, 1060, 1070 and 1080's). The roof eliminates any of the 1926 1200 series coaches which had the AC&F factory "round" roofs and 770-775 monitor roof coaches. The Frisco and AC&F arch/round roofs have different contours.
    The rest of the consist (from back to front): A 1250 class lw coach originally built for the Meteor and Texas Special; a 1928 or 1930 (AC&F) hw RPO-baggage; a "messenger" or "working" baggage car and the next two cars behind the engines would be sealed mail and/or express cars--One for Tulsa, the other for Oklahoma City.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2009
  13. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    I'm getting my skill level up with my new HP Photosmart Plus printer/scanner/copier. It helps sometimes to read the book! (Even if you do have to download it now - the book they give you in the box only tells how to set it up!).

    Here are better scans of my two pics of Frisco #4, the Will Rogers, coming through Rolla in Feb/Mar 1964 behind SLSF 2007. Do these give any added clues to the ID of the last car?


    Attached Files:

  14. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    Ken--I can't get any closer than the previous posting. The car has the "Frisco" (As opposed to the AC&F) turtleback roof and looks like it has two vestibules. I can't tell if it has "paired" or single windows. That only narrows it down to about forty coaches or "chair cars." Probably a little less than half had "single" widows (like 1062) and the rest had "paired" windows like 753, 761 and "Joplin." The Frisco home built "Turtleback" roofs were flatter on top as they had originally been monitor roof cars and had the area from the car side up to the clestory "filled" in. The AC&F "round" roofs are like the RPO car in your picture and came that way from the factory.

  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Looks like the car has 15 evenly spaced single windows.
  16. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    The Walthers paired-window coach in unlettered Pullman Green is a fair representation of cars like SLSF 774.

  17. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    Looking at the diagram book, none of the HW coaches or chair cars with two vestibules have fifteen single windows. Three or four in the 1060 series have sixteen. The windows and other details are so hard to see and really confirm any actual car number. However the coaches and chair cars in 750, 760, 770 (With monitor roofs), 1060, 1070 and 1080 series plus the named "deluxe coaches" Joplin, Enid, Okmulgee, Wichita and Ft. Smith were used all over the system and none would have been out of place on the "Will Rogers."

  18. mark

    mark Member

    Gordon and others,

    Check out the Walthers paired window coach in green, part number 932-10149. Better yet, it is on sale as of 10/7/09. This would produce cars very similar to those in the SLSF 700 series.

    Also, this may be another car where one can substitute Walther's clerestory style roof with one from their heavyweight paired window coach that has a "modernized" or "balloon" style roof. I believe this would produce cars similar to, though not exactly like, the Enid, Joplin, Wichita and others. Please see the following: (substitute coach roof on car above).

    Hopefully someone with more specialized interest, knowledge and good photos to share can contribute further to the discussion.

    There is a wealth of information building here that may be of interest to manufactures including Walthers. Sounds like time to push manufacturers for passenger equipment lettered for Frisco prototypes, and not just "pool" equipment lettered for other roads like the Pennsylvania through sleeper for the SLSF Meteor, in silver and red with red lettering. See the Walters' Pullman-Standard Streamlined 10-5 Sleeper,

    If manufacturers have seen enough interest in small railroads like the Soo Line to produce equipment lettered for that road, why not the Frisco? We just need to show them the way and follow through by buying. Surely there is enough interest for it to be a financial success for manufacturers in a much larger railroad like the Frisco.

    I know what you are thinking, "and don't don't call me Shirley."

    Hope this helps.


    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2009
  19. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    Here's Branchline's HO paired window coach that could represent the AC&F 1923 770-775 class monitor roof car.


    Attached Files:

  20. gna

    gna Member Supporter

    I have two sets of Rivarossi Heavyweight cars, the A and B sets. They consist of Baggage Express, Combine, Diner, Pullman, Baggage P.O., Coach, Duplex Sleeper, and Observation. They are Pullman green, lettered for Santa Fe, but I thought I could reletter for Frisco. Is anything close enough to use?

    I asked this on the Frisco Yahoo! group a few years ago. I got a few emails, too, with advice on how to renumber for close enough cars, which I have since lost, so I'll ask again here.

    The Duplex Sleeper is an oddball, but I may be able to use the roof on something else. The coach looks like a 70' car. I was hoping the combine, Baggage P.O., Baggage Express, and Pullman could be used. I may pull the roof off the observation, which looks like it had air conditioning added, and put it on the pullman.

    I'm in the same boat as Krlwhizkid, too. I need help with lightweights, too, but that's another thread.

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