Hi everyone; I'm looking for an small town to model where the Frisco and MoPac crossed, interchanged or came close to each other in the 1950's. I especially would like branch line areas in Missouri so I could drive to and visit to take photos. Thanks Mike.P St. Louis, Mo.
I can't think of any/many in MO because the MP and the Frisco went in different directions out of KC and StL. 1. Aurora, MO - I think the MP came south out of Carthage, crossed the SLSF at Aurora and then went south into Arkansas. I believe there was a little interchange there. 2. Lamar, MO - MP ran north/south, SLSF ran NW/SE. Interchange point, not a lot of industry. 3. Ft Scott, KS - Lots of switching, etc, however, the MP pulled out of FtS (1960s I think, need to check Rails, Rivalary, Romance). MP in FtS in the 1970s might not be plausible. 4. Harrisonville, MO - SLSF crossed the MP and the MKT here I believe. Bad thing is a lot of railroading is gone in Harrisonville. Only the MNA (MP) remains. I will try to think of a few more.
Mike, In Missouri during the 1950s there are several interesting locations for Frisco / MoP modelers. Among some of my favorites are: Branch Lines Western Missouri - Dodson, Harrisonville (+MKT), Joplin (+MKT, KCS), Webb City, Minden (Mindenmines) Southeastern Missouri - Poplar Bluff, Morehouse, Sikeston, Delta, Naylor Also, there are Main Line opportunities on the Frisco in: Liberal, Lamar, Carthage, Valley Park, Aurora, Pacific, Riverside, Crystal City, Horine, St. Genevieve, Cape Girardeau, Chaffee, Oran Hope this helps. Thanks! Mark
A few other places off the top of my head where the MP and the SLSF were very close: Manchester Road in St Louis (sbs = side by side) Glendale/Webster Groves/Kirkwood (reasonably close) Eureka, Mo (sbs) Pacific, Mo (sbs) Ken
The first place that comes to mind is Harrisonville, Mo., where the Mopac crossed the Frisco's Clinton sub until the latter was scrapped in the 1970s. Before the 1930s, Harrisonville was a busier junction town, with no fewer than four railroads crossing each other within the space of a few carlengths, as seen in these platmap images from an earlier www.frisco.org discussion. You can find several relevant discussion threads, including discussion of a recent Classic Trains magazine article, by searching www.frisco.org for "harrisonville". Other possibilities in western Missouri or eastern Kansas include Paola KS , Fort Scott KS, Aurora, Mo., and Lamar Mo. If you aren't firmly wedded to the small town concept, you can consider the various junctions, interchanges, and union depots that existed in Kansas City and St. Louis. Springfield had a MoPac branchline that terminated near the Frisco's former KCFS&M yard, but so far as I know no crossing. You may want to pick a location based on your relative interest in the two roads. Many of the locations noted have an imbalance between the two, with one line having a substantially stronger "mainline" presence and the other being represented by a secondary line. Fort Scott and Springfield favor the Frisco, with major SLSF yards overshadowing a secondary MP line. Harrisonville would have relatively heavy MP traffic overshadowing the Frisco's bucolic Clinton sub. I don't know much about Paola, Aurora, or Lamar. Perhaps they would offer a better balance between the two.
MikeP, The Aurora area may be what your looking for. Frisco ran East/West and MoPac ran North West/South East through Aurora. There was also a Frisco branch North to Mount Vernon about 10-15 miles away. This branch used to go all the way to Greenfeild but that was shorted before 1950. My Moms side of the family live in the Aurora area. I can remember many a sleepless nights, visiting my grandparents, listening to Frisco switchers moving covered hoppers for the large grain mill. Cut my teeth on the Mount Vernon branch and where MP went North West out of town. This was during the 1960's. Check bing's maps. You can still see the branch to Mount Vernon, follow tree line in some places. The two main lines are opperational by BNSF and UP. Joe
In Lamar Both lines still egsist today. The Frisco's Ash Grove sub main line through town is now the main line for the BNSF Ft. Scott sub. Also the Mop line is now MNA (and they go super slow).
A bit of internet research suggests that if you want heavy mainline traffic from both railroads in a smalltown setting, Paola KS might be well worth investigating. Check out the maps and aerial photographs at http://maps.google.com and www.terraserver-usa.com . There's a winding stream to add scenic interest, a small town for human interest, a crossing of two busy SLSF and MP main lines, and a reasonable but not overwhelming number of switching and interchange tracks. As a bonus, you get the MKT, whose mainline from Oklahoma joins the SLSF at Paola and uses SLSF trackage rights from there to Kansas City. The USGS map on the Terraserver-USA site also shows the route of the long-abandoned Katy branch that stretched east from Paola toward Harrisonville, Windsor, and Sedalia Mo. Perhaps those with more specific local knowledge can add more.
At Pacific, MO, the two main lines were literally next to one another, though not with an interchange. At Kirkwood, same situation, plus the MP Carondolet sub branched off and crossed the Frisco main. You can get to that spot although the MP branch is now a hiking trail. Also at Horine, MO, the Frisco crossed the MP via an overhead bridge. However, I am not aware of an interchange at any of these points. Finally, check out Ste. Genevieve, where there is what appears to be an interchange yard between UP and BNSF that appears active. This is also the location of a Mississippi River ferry operation. Greg Stout
Mike P, I hoped Mark would not forget Cape Girardeau, my home town! My model railroad will include all the MoPac and SLSF trackage that coexisted in Cape. While the Frisco was the mainline road through Cape, and MoPac's line was a spur off their mainline from the southern edge of Cape there was interaction in the area, especially in the Frisco yard at Cape and the yard in Chaffee. Plenty of diverse industry as well. All the Houck railroad lines in the area were like a spider web that entangled multiple railroads; SLSF, MoPac, Cotton Belt to name a few. There's a world of info about the area right here on this site: http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=1161 Plus just to the northwest is Jackson, MO which was on another MoPac spur that ran just to the west of Cape, as well as the old Cape Girardeau & Chester (later Cape Girardeau Northern) that ran from Cape to Jackson and became part of the MoPac's operations. I have more that I can share beyond what is presently found on the above link. PM me if you want to know more!
Thanks everyone; Lots of places to look at. Now to sit down and see which area fits my bill. Mike.p St. Louis, Mo.
Some other Mop/Frisco crossing's in small towns. Cherokee, Kansas where two Frisco lines crossed the Mop Pittsburg Sub. You had the Frisco Parsons Sub cross the Mop on the east edge of town and the Frisco Afton Sub cross the Mop just south of town. Another location would be Pittsburg where you had the Frisco Girard to Joplin line cross the Mop Pittsburg Sub and a Frisco industrial spur also cross the Mop. Then you can skip to Mindenmines, MO where the Frisco Parsons Sub crossed the Mop Pittsburg Sub in the middle of the coal mining area. Pleasanton, KS also once had the Frisco Fort Scott Sub cross the Mop branch that went towards Leroy, KS. I'm sure we all can come up with more if we check enough timetables! John Chambers
I'll add Delta, MO, on the Hoxie Sub. You also get an interchange with the Cotton Belt for lagniappe. See http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=2204&highlight=delta
The Iantha Branch hopes to be adding a Mop interchange soon, as well as an interchange with the Santa Fe.
