It finally makes sense!

(I'm not quite sure what forum to use for this thread. I apologize if "general" is the wrong place for it.)
I don't mean to "beat a dead horse" again but I sincerely think I finally understand why some of the users of frisco.org are so opposed to BN/BNSF. Honestly, I don't know why it has taken me this long to understand.
Due to my age, I have no memories of the Frisco except for some rolling stock on the BN. My childhood memories are full of the sights and sounds of the BN. Although my 1st HO loco is a Santa Fe, I have never cared for the Santa Fe. After all, I never saw a Santa Fe locomotive until they merged with BN. By then, I was old enough to dislike what I felt was "the warbonnet invasion." Santa Fe on the BN? It seemed so... wrong! I guess that's how you "Frisco purists" felt about the "Big Nothing's" "Green Monsters" rolling into town on the Frisco.
However, to me, there is one major difference between the SLSF/BN merger and the BN/SF merger. The SLSF/BN merger was less like a "merger" and more like an "absorption" of SLSF into BN. Frisco motive power was diliberately repainted as BN, as quickly as possible. In contrast, the BN & SF merger was more like a true "merger"... combining BN & Santa Fe into BNSF. (And of course BNSF wasn't as quick as BN to pull the trigger on the paint gun.)
(Here's where it finally sunk in folks!...)
If Santa Fe had "aborbed" the BN and repainted all of the BN motive power with "Santa Fe" and warbonnets (red/silver or blue/yellow), I suspect I might feel the same way about Santa Fe as you "Frisco purists" feel about BN.
Again, I don't know why it's taken me so long to think of it that way. I sincerely apoligize for "not getting it" sooner and for some of the "anti-purists" things I've posted on this website. I hope this post will help other Frisco/BN/BNSF fans who use this website understand why some frisco.org users are so strongly opposed to BN/BNSF. Don't misunderstand... I'm still a fan of all 3 (#1 Frisco, #2 BN, & #3 BNSF), but now I understand why some people feel so strongly against BN/BNSF.
For some, it's all about trying to hold on to what you remember. For some of you it's Frisco. For me, it's BN motive power with Frisco & BN rolling stock & BN cabooses. And (to make ME feel old), some can only remember BNSF with "FRED's." (...Stinkin' FRED's)
Now that I've gotten that off of my chest... what about those "UP" fans...? What in the world... (just kidding, HA!) Now there's a merger for you "Frisco folks"..."UPBNSF" (Up BNSF).
-Brandon

 

Nope... You still haven't figured it out.

 

Well...? If that's not it, please explain it to me. I really, sincerely want to know.

 

Burlington
Northern
San
Francisco now that is a proper credit merger mktjames

 

That's pretty good! Still, I wish someone would fill me in if I haven't figured it out. Reply to this thread or private message me. I'm sure there is some ligitimate reasoning behind the issue but if I haven't figured it out yet, I'm more than willing to listen.

 

Beats
Nothing
So
Far

I would love it if the GEVO's on the B'ham sub were still being lettered FRISCO, but as far as I'm concerned, anything on rails is better than nothing on roadbed. Come on folks... seriously... I'm still waiting on personal stories about the absorption.

 

Santa Fe split to form the Chicago Burlington & Quincy, which split yet again, to form the Burlington, and then the St. Louis and San Francisco Railway, which became the St. Louis-San Francisco, which became Burlington Northern, when Burlington merged with Great Northern, which then intern merged back home again to the Santa Fe. The whole entire family is back together again.

Why can't the FRISCO live up to its red-headed step child reputation (undeserved) and throw a tantrum and come back. Tell the BNSF to shove it and start rolling on the rails independently again. (Okay, I'm dreaming...)

 

WOW!

I thought my Rip Track attracted attention and now this? I´ll try to expalin what little I know.

The modern railfan movement as we know it today got its start more or less in the early 1940s when Lucius Beebe published several books containing railroad photography and Railroad Magazine started to cover local railfan events that usually took place in the New York/New Jersey area as one day trips to visit local railroad facilities. Look at photos of these trips and check out the guys in suits and ties! The Diesel had started to invade former all steam territory and most of the railroads in the area had been formed by merger or outright purchase by the larger stronger carriers. I wonder if the old head rail buffs of that period also mourned the passing of a favorite railroad they had grown up with? Item: The late great John W. Barriger III (of Katy fame) attempted to draw up a merger movement himself in the midst of the Great Depression. I don´t have the information on which railroads were to have been merged together, perhaps other members can provide this here, and how the Frisco would have faired, had his plan become reality?

The merger movement that continued up to the BN eliminating the Frisco as a seperate carrier got its start in 1957 when the Louisville & Nashville absorbed their subsidiary, the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis, into their system. In the early 60s the Frisco attempted to bring the Central of Georgia into the Frisco Family. The powerful Southern Railway rejected the plan and ended up with the CG, derailing Frisco´s desire to increase their expansion in the Southeast. At the same time the Atlantic Coast Line and Seaboard Air Line were conducting merger talks. A provision of the merger that formed Seaboard Coast Line was to permit Southern Railway entrance into Tampa, Florida. Tampa, at the time, was still a somewhat lazy port city but SR probably had eyed Port Tampa as an outlet to Central and South America as well as the world.

Visit www.tampaport.com and look at the region today. I met Ed Bunch after a 1962 move from Dallas to Tampa. A 15 year old teenager who missed the Frisco, Ed befriended me and showed me the secrets of rates and tarriffs, as he was a Frisco off-line traffic agent in Tampa. He had quite a few Florida customers who would "Ship IT on the Frisco!" Four major customers were Publix and Winn-Dixie super markets and Logan and Joyner lumber companies. He was in favor of the Frisco acquring the CG and perhaps also considered what run-through freights with the SCL would do to decrease the time it took to deliver freight to the greater Tampa Bay area. It remains a mystery to us to this day why this was never proposed by either carrier. Ed was (and at age 88, still is) a thinker and innovater! The ACL´s Perry Cut-Off in Northern Florida would have played a major roll in the shorter period of time it took freight to move from the Frisco to the greater Tampa Bay area. Ed knew his maps and routings. He was a professional railroader!

The CSX boasts of being a modern player in 21st Century transportation but the bottom line is that the famous x-ACL Perry Cut-Off in Northern Florida has been lifted thus resulting in a longer time eliment to deliver freight from former Frisco connections to the Tampa Bay area so this hasn´t improved freight service for the rail shipper in an ever increasing shrinking world with stiffer competition! Be it Frisco, BN or BNSF, the shipper pays the price with longer waiting times to get his product unloaded and on the market!

I still don´t understand the BNSF mess myself! So I ask seasoned members here this question: Which railroads should have merged after 1980 and where would the Frisco have better fit in? Should the Frisco have remained independent, seeking to acquire other rail lines to continue to build it into a major railroad or merging with another railroad instead of being murdered by BN? The drama of railroading continues, but it most certainly hasn´t been the same nor is it, without the Frisco. Just ask Ed Bunch!

Joe Toth

 

Enough, already!
Less talk, more modeling.

 

Well, it's certainly possible my conclusion is completely wrong. If so, I haven't recieved any useful information on the subject despite my sincere requests. Since, I'm not getting information and since this thread is showing signs of the potential for further division (the exact opposite of my original intent), I'm closing this thread. If anyone would be willing to give me a history lesson about the merger via a private message or send me a link to more info, I would be more than happy to learn. Even if you just want to share you're thoughts with me on the subject, it's a subject I'm interested in so I'll always be ready to listen to what you have to say. Until then... Ship it on the Frisco.

 

I just figured out you have to click "Close this thread" before you click "Post Quick Reply."