Hi Friscophiles! I'm looking to learn more about the West Bottoms area in KC. Does anyone have some maps (or map) showing the industrial rails/etc? Did the Frisco serve any of the West Bottoms industries? Fascinating area. Any input appreciated! Andre Ming
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? I don't know if this is what your looking for, but about a month ago there was a post with photo's of Frisco served industries in the West Bottom area. I don't know about a map though. Hope this will help Ship it on the Frisco!!! Murphy Jenkins
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Hi Murphy: Thanks for the input. Do by any chance recall the forum it was in, or name of the thread? Andre Ming
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Here is the name of the thread. "KC West Bottoms - Rudy Patrick Seed Co." I just searched "west bottoms" in the search box and it was the fith or six down. Hope this helps. Ship it on the Frisco!!! Murphy Millican
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Andre, The industries located in the Frisco's Kansas City Terminal were divided into 6 Zones or industry cluster switching groups. Zone 5 is the area most closely associated with the West Bottoms. The zones included Zone 1, Rosedale Industrial Area; Zone 2, Industries Between Rosedale and 19th Street Yards; Zone 3, 29th Street Industrial Area (the Hill); Zone 4, 29th Street Industrial Area (the Alley); Zone 5, 8th Street Industrial Area and Zone 6 Coburg Industrial Area. Zone 5 generally starts near the 12th Street viaduct, runs north of the KCT Railway in Santa Fe Street past the KCT's Tower 2 (Old Union Depot Interlocking) and then turns west just north of 8th Street. Industries in March 1972 included Cooks Terminal Warehouse, Inc. - Brokers Building, (east of 12th Street), Cooks Terminal Warehouse, Inc. - Terminal Building (west of 12th Street), Weber Paper Company, Rudy - Patrick Seen Company - No. 1, an "Open" 7 story warehouse building with track inside, Continental Oil Company, Certainteed Saint Gobain Insulation Corporation, Helmers Manufacturing Company, Cerro Wire Company, "Open", "Open", Schooler - Gorman Shipping, Universal Supply Company - No. 1, "Open", Lazy-Boy lawn Mower Company, U & I Sugar, Graham Ship-By-Truck, Alexander Material Handling & Chemical Company, American Machine & Manufacturing Company, Rudy - Patrick Seed Company - Atlas Building, Rudy - Patrick Seed Company - Lynch Building, Douglas Paint Company, "Open", Universal Supply Company - No. 2, "Open", General Box Company, Frisco Old Main - Armours Meat Packing, Frisco Back Track - Armours Meat Packing, Frisco Long Track - Armours Meat Packing. North of the Rudy - Patrick Seed Company - Atlas Building (an elevator now gone) there were direct connections with interchanges to the Kansas City Southern (KCS) Railway (on a wye to the east) and the Chicago Great Western (CGW) / Chicago Northwestern (CNW) Railroad (on a wye to the west). The CGW / CNW had trackage rights over the Frisco down 12th Street, with middle of the street running, to reach the Kansas City Terminal (KCT) Railway and the rest of the railroads in Kansas City. Note the CGW was merged into and became part of the CNW in 1968. Industries located in Zones 3 and 4 are listed in the link: http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=2905&highlight=west+bottoms. Zone 6 is on the east side of Kansas City (the north end of the Clinton Subdivision), south of Sheffield Tower (KCT Railway) near the Centropolis and north of the Leeds (BV Junction) neighborhood districts. You need to come to Kansas City for a visit and a guided tour. Contact Rick McClellan or me and we will be glad to give you a tour. Keith Robinson and John Moenius are also local Frisco modelers. Hope this helps. Thanks! Mark
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? For an overview map of the general area of Zone 5 in the West Bottoms, please see: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...9.10299,-94.602113&spn=0.009242,0.016565&z=16. The former Armour Meat Packing Company's plant complex straddled the Kansas / Missouri state line northwest of the intersection of 800 block of Wyoming and 1500 block West 8th Streets. For a street level view looking north from 12th Street down Santa Fe Street, please see http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...anoid=z39wHfvemwNbDgRl8Ct9pg&cbp=12,2.18,,0,5. Note the Kansas City Terminal (KCT) Railway's Tower 2 near the telephone / power pole on the right. For a street level view looking south from 8th Street down Santa Fe Street, please see http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...oid=M0S8Gj4FYoAkZ2e81RX9YQ&cbp=12,179.63,,0,5. Rotate this view to the northwest and you see the curved wall of Rudy - Patrick Seed Company - Lynch Building where the tracks turned to the west headed to the Armour Meat Packing Company complex. You can "drive" down the streets and rotate the views for a "look around" the area. This is not too bad a substitute if you need a "remote control" view of the area but are unable to visit. However, it is NOT the same as a personalized visit with local fellow Frisco modelers giving a guided tour, and you miss out on eating Rosedale Bar-B-Q for lunch! Hope this helps. Thanks! Mark
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? There's a 1916 blueprint of the West Bottoms Area up for auction on ebay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/Frisco-SLSF-Wes...ms=65:1|66:2|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Wow. Thanks for the response, fella's! I will be pressed for time tonight, for I'll be packing and readying for a motorcycle trip from Poteau, OK to Tucson, AZ and return. I will be leaving in the morning and will return 9 days later. SOOOO... I won't be able to assimilate (then apply) the knowledge I hope to gain from this thread until I return. BUT, rest assured if I get on top of things tonight, I'll be hitting this thread and looking at all the links and stuff. Reason for the West Bottoms inquiry? Threefold: 1. I've been fascinated with the area for a looong time. 2. My current (stagnant) home layout is based on the West Bottoms. 3. BUT... (and this is the main reason for the post)... I'm contemplating creating a V scale facimile of the West Bottoms, circa mid/late-sixties. Don't know whether to go with a KCT emphasis or Frisco, or ??? All for now... will check back later tonight I hope! Andre Ming
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? The KC Library website has a large collection of photos from the West Bottoms. Many were taken during the flood of 1951. Since the Frisco served buildings were nearest the downtown KC bluffs where most of the flood photos were taken many of the photos show buildings the Frisco served. Go to the KC Library site, then to the Missouri Valley Room (I think?) online photo collection and search for "West Bottoms". I was amazed at the information available and the quantity of photos. Found some great aerial shots of the curved brick building that was part of the Rudy Patrick Seed complex. There are also some Sanborn fire maps of the West Bottoms available at the KC Library website. Think some were dated in the 1950's. Latest dates I have ever seen on a Sanborn map so they are actually very helpful. Mark, I wonder if the 7-story "open" industry with inside track was the Loose-Wiles Bakery (Sunshine Bakery). They must have moved over to Fairfax after the 1951 flood. I have been looking at a lot of old photos of the West Bottoms and the location of the bakery appears to coincide with the Frisco schematic track plans industry location you mentioned. Dale Rush Blair Line LLC Carthage, MO
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Remodeling of house is almost complete, except basement. Start date of West Bottoms layout is now August. Have a workable trackplan, I think, off of zone 5 map. Based on tip from website I have gone down to KC library and looked at the pictures. Also want to thank Rick McClellan and Mark Davidson for all the help and encouragement. What a great website this is. John
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? I overlaid SLSF track and industries from a 1969 list provided by Rick over a 1950's aerial photo of the West Bottoms. Hope this is helpful. I am trying to work a bunch of this trackwork into a newly redesigned N scale layout. Will post new track plans in the future. Dale Rush Blair Line LLC Carthage, MO
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Dale, Great job! Thank you so much for your help! It is really cool that you were able use the photo, identify the industries and overlay the track arrangement. The view looks east and there is a tremendous amount of detail in the photo. The Wabash freight house is east of Santa Fe and under the Forester Street Viaduct. Today you can still see the roof tar joints on the bridge supports. The KCS / Milwaukee joint agency freight house is to the northeast of Rudy-Patrick Seed Company - Atlas Building (elevator). The CGW freight house has been clearly marked by Dale. This is the east end of their Ohio Street Yard. Tracks 575, 576 and 577 lead to the west to the former Armour Meat Packing Plant complex just off the bottom of the photograph. Thanks again! Mark
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Dale- This is really helpful. I didn't realize that the Frisco went off to the northeast and switched Sunshine and a couple of other buildings. Better get out the eraser and reconfigure the trackplan. Can't let a big customer like that go without rail service. John
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Overlaying this aerial shot cleared some things up for me too. The schematics are great, indispensable, but not totally geographically correct in their orientation. I didn't realize the Frisco went that far NE either until I did the overlay and saw they went as far as the Helmers Bldg. which is very clearly marked on the photo by the painted sign on the side of the building. I noticed a couple of mistakes on my part. The industry marked #518 should be marked #519 (Helmers Mfg. which I believe made furniture). Industry #518 should therefore have been located just in front of the Helmers building. Thanks Mark for pointing out the Wabash Freight Station. I thought that building was a freight station but didn't know who it belonged to. Thanks for mentioning the KCS/Milw Joint Agency Freight Station. I forgot the Milw shared that one. And thanks too for letting us know about the CGW trackage rights. I did not know that. Man I learn so much on this website. Dale Rush Blair Line LLC Carthage, MO
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? One last aerial shot of the West Bottoms in the 1951 flood. I have overlaid the Frisco tracks in red. Wish we could find a clear shot like this with the streets and tracks in view. Dale Rush Carthage, MO
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Dale - Thanks. Neat photo and your track overlay is great. Never having been there, this is the first time I understand the Rudy Patrick curved building wall! I guess this photo also explains why the name "West Bottoms" is appropriate - rising water, they get wet. Ken
Re: West Bottoms RR Map-Operational Questions Dale has done a great job with these overlays. For anyone with real operational experience I have a question. You will notice there are switches pointing north and south, yet there does not appear to be any run around tracks. So how would the Frisco run jobs into the west bottoms? Would an locomotive go all the way from 19th street yard with cars blocked ahead and behind, switch,then drag the whole thing back to 19th street. Or as one person has suggested to me, a job would run in with all north pointing switches and another with south pointing switches. I would assume during the transition period these jobs powered by Baldwin VO's. Confirmation? I am trying to break my proposed layout into "jobs" so as to keep a couple of operators busy. Thus my question. Thanks in advance. John
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Hi All: Posting this from Tucson! (Been a fantastic trip thus far.) Wanted to say that the pics w/overlays will be very helpful in learning more about the SLSF "lay of the land" in the West Bottoms. The points where the diagramed tracks cross: Are those diamonds? Or, were there flyovers as well? Great stuff. The help is much appreciated. More later when I get home. Andre Ming
Re: West Bottoms RR Map?? Dear KC Afficianados: JACKPOT! This was a wonderful thread to great me upon a return home from 2 weeks of vacation! We actually flew directly over KCUS and the West Bottoms on our approach to MCI yesterday afternoon...talk about your big picture view; I could see West Bottoms, KCUS, Rosedale (or what's left of it) and the "other yards" (Argentine, Armourdale and Murry to name a few). I look forward to digesting this later today when it gets too hot to work in the yard!
