Trains 103 & 104

Discussion in 'Ash Grove Subdivision' started by myopiceagle, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. myopiceagle

    myopiceagle Member

    I'm attempting to gather information on passenger trains 103 & 104, besides the timetables that list them, I haven't had any further luck. I'm trying to find any pictures or references to the make-up of the trains themselves. Also, is there any documentation or pictures of 'mixed' trains on this sub? Thanks for any tips or leads!
     
  2. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    I have a couple of photos of tr.104 ca. 1953. I'll have to dig them up. 103-104 was a KC-Springfield local combined with tr. 117-118 at Ft. Scott. Typical four-car consist was E-8 (or passenger GP-7)/RPO-baggage/baggage/coach/second coach. All heavyweight--A neat "pike-size" passenger train. Stay tuned.

    Tom

    PS: Trains 103-104 (un-named local) and trains 101-102 ("The Sunnyland") covered the KC-Memphis route for the years (1950-55, I believe??) which was the Sunnyland's route both before and after that period. Trains 101-102 during that period was a three-car local usually handled by an FP-7. 101 and 102 were called the Sunnyland, but the Sunnyland name was also used a Memphis-Birmingham train and it's St.Louis-Memphis connection.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2010
  3. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Here are some photos taken at the Springfield depot in December 1953. At left: SLSF E-8 2016 "Citation." Middle: Side view of engine showing racehorse name. Right: tr.104 leaving. The all heavyweight consist that day:
    --E-8 2016
    --Arch Roof RPO-bagggage (RPO "apartment" ahead)
    --Arch Roof Baggage
    --Arch Roof Coach
    --Monitor Roof Coach (w/ducts)

    Train # 104 departed Springfield daily 2:20 PM. This was the typical consist--sometimes the engine would be a GP-7.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2009
  4. pkcase

    pkcase Member

    Was 103 & 104 known as the Will Rogers?
     
  5. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    103 and 104 were unnamed locals between Springfield and Kansas City. The train was actually combined (104) and divided (103) AT Fort Scott with the Firefly (tr. 117-118) which ran between KC and Tulsa. The Will Rogers (tr. 3-4) ran between St. Louis and Oklahoma City.

    Tom
     
  6. pkcase

    pkcase Member

    Thanks for the info.

    PK
     
  7. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I finally found the tread I was looking for.

    note I would like to add....

    According to the 1952 time table I have, Trains 103 (the southbound (no name) local) and 104 (northbound local) only ran from Springfield to Ft. Scott.

    It also says that the Sunnyland was trains 105 & 106, both on the Ash Grove, and Kansas City subs.

    I do have one question though. When would they have stopped using steam on 103 and 104?
     
  8. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Trains 105 and 106 were the Kansas City-Florida Special. During the period when there were trains 103 and 104 (About 1950-55), There was also a Springfield-Memphis local. That train was numbered 101 and 102 and called the Sunnyland. The Sunnyland name was used as well as on trains 107-108 which was a Memphis-Birmingham train at that time. Before 1950 and after 1955, the Sunnyland was numbered 107 and 108 and ran all the way from Kansas City to Birmingham. Trains 103 and 104 were advertised as Springfeild-KC trains, but they only actually carried a Springfield-KC coach.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2010
  9. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The Sunnyland train name was used all over the system for trains heading down to "the sun". Trains 807-107 and 108-808 were the St Louis - Memphis sections, which ran down and up the River Division.

    The times I saw it (early 1960's), it had one Racehorse E-unit, a few head end cars, and one/two coaches.

    Ken
     
  10. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Just for more clarification, the Sunnyland was the name of several trains that made the connection to the Sunnyland at Memphis. In addition to the trains mentioned in this post, trains 107, 807 and 108, 808 on the River Division between St Louis and Memphis were also known as the Sunnyland.

    From Memphis southward, the Sunnyland continued on to Birmingham and ultimately Pensacola, FL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2010
  11. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    For further reference:

    (a) A link to some information on "Sunnyland,"Trains 107/108:

    http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=1881

    (b) A link to Ken McElreath's "Observations" column from the FMIG Newsletters on "Sunnyland,"Trains 807/808:

    http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=1633

    I don't know of a separate write-up on 103/104 by Ken in the earlier newsletters; I also don't see anything on the site here. This may be a good candidate for a "Meteor" article?

    Best Regards,
     
  12. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    "Generally speaking," the Sunnyland was a Kansas City-Birmingham train, with a St. Louis-Memphis section and ocacasional variations on the theme.

    Tom
     
  13. myopiceagle

    myopiceagle Member


    According to my information, on Sept. 20, 1951 there were still at least two active passenger locomotives in the Northern division. So, while there is the possibility that these two trains could have been headed by steam this late in the dieslization process, it is more likely that E units were the regular power at this point. By the end of 1951, these remaining steam locomotives were taken off the active roster.
     
  14. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    What steam locomotives are they?
    My time table (38 B, effective September 28, 1952) has steamers 1500,1501,1516,1519,1522,1524-1527,1529,4200-4219,4500-4524 all listed with tonnage class, bridge class and actual weight. It also lists speed restrictions for KC and AG subs and it only has diesels for pass service (70 mph), but it lists 55 mph on diesel powered freight and 50 mph on steam powered freight.
     
  15. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    On Sept 20, 1951, the active psgr locomotives on the Northern Div were the 1025, the 1062, and 1522. The 1522 was in local freight service between Ft Scott and Afton. It's quite possible that 103/104 were being powered by the 1062.


    By Sept 28, 1952, steam on the Frisco was dead, and the locomotives listed in ETT 38B were in storage to protect the Korea War effort
     
  16. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    This is a pretty old thread, but I've added some new infomation. The names and numbers of the daytime locals on the Kansas City to Memphis line were always confusing to me, so I went back through my timetable collection and looked up some dates and details:
    As far back as Sept. 1942 (My earliest timetable), the unnamed local trains on the Kansas City to Springfield run were numbered 103-104. Tr. 103 was split off train 111-103 at Fort Scott for the run to Springfield. Tr. 104 was combined with Train 118 at Fort Scott for the run to Kansas City as 104-118. The Springfield to Memphis (and Birmingham) trains were numbered 107 and 108 and named "The Sunnyland."
    In December 1951 trains 107 and 108 ("The Sunnyland") then ran from Memphis to Birmingham and there was a new pair of trains numbered 101 and 102 also called "The Sunnyland" running between Springfield and Memphis. Trains 103 and 104 still ran between Springfield (Fort Scott) and Kansas City. 103 and 104 were unnamed.
    On September 13, 1956, trains 101-102-103-104 were discontinued and just one pair of trains numbered 107 and 108 and named "The Sunnyland," covered the whole route between Kansas City, Memphis and Birmingham. 107 and 108 ran between Kansas City and Fort Scott combined with the "Firefly" (Trains 117-118). All the while, there was a St. Louis to Memphis connection of "The Sunnyland" (Trains 807-808).

    Tom G.
     
  17. Frisco1515

    Frisco1515 Frisco1515

    I don't know what happened after 1947, but before that, Tr 104 did not carry a through coach to KC. Trains 104, 124, and 118 arrived shortly after each other at Ft. Scott. 104 was first in, then 124 with the Firefly coach it had gotten from that morning's 117. A switch engine shoved 124's two cars north out from the depot, and then returned with the Firefly coach and coupled it on the 104's rear coach where 104's KC passengers moved to the Firefly coach of 124. After 118 arrived, the switcher took the Firefly coach and coupled it to the rear of 118. As a youngster, I watched this maneuver a hundred times, and I loved every minute of it. Frisco1515
     
  18. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

  19. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Joplin to Ft Scott local psgr train which traveled the Girard Br and Tuckahoe Br and J&G Br as train 323. Counterpart was 121 and 320. The change in numbers occurred because Girard Br ran N&S, while the Tuckahoe and J&G branches were E&W lines. During their final days these trains were handled by a Bullmoose.
     
  20. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I believe tha McCall's Frisco Southwest has a couple of pics of this train at Ft Scott.
     

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