Sulligent Layout

Discussion in 'Divisions' started by trainchaser007, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Brandon, I like this one!

    Not sure if the lack of buildings inside the return-loops represents any uncertainty, but I like the ideas of using these "blobs" in such configurations as a staging loop of sorts. With a small backdrop that cuts across the neck of each one, you can utilize the areas in between as more of your modeling stage. It also avoids the unrealistic appearance of an industry within a loop, and can save on scenic materials. Just another thought, but regardless of which way you go, I think this one holds a lot of potential.

    Best Regards,
     
  2. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thanks, Chris. It definitely represents uncertainty. My plan sacrifices radius in the sidings in order to cut down on the overall footprint of the layout. I may make some steep, narrow hills, about 4" tall (plus the height of some trees), out of stacked foam from the tip of each "tear drop" to the "bottom." Then again, since the dog bone to the left is in the direction of Amory, MS, and because Amory had a roundhouse once upon a time, that part of the dog bone could house a roundhouse and turntable. As for the realism of any dog bone or reverse loop surrounding an industry, look no further than Alabama Power's, coal-fueled, Miller Steam Plant at Quinton, AL.
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...5e67768919baa6!8m2!3d33.6315736!4d-87.0582175
     
  3. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Turn table and roundhouse idea. Could represent Amory, MS.
    Layout 12x12.gif
     
  4. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    My interest in scratch building the Sulligent Depot is growing and I could use all the advice and tips I can get.
    Without any color photos to work from, I believe the brick was dark red. I plan to use Walther's, Cornerstone, dark red, brick sheets.
    https://www.walthers.com/brick-sheet-4-x-9-3-4-quot-10-1-x-24-7cm-pkg-4-dark-red
    As for the non-bricked parts of the walls, if I had to guess, I would say they probably had a stucco finish. I'm thinking about using something like JTT Miniature Stucco sheets.
    https://www.walthers.com/patterned-plastic-sheet-2-pack-stucco-wall-7-1-2-x-12-quot-19-1-x-30-5cm
    One of the hardest parts is going to be finding all the windows and doors. I've been browsing the Grandt Line website.
    http://www.grandtline.com/products/arch/ho/ho_scale_small_windows.html
    The task of finding exactly what I need is a little daunting.
    For the window in what almost looks like a brick garage door on the east (railroad south) end, I'm thinking about using 2 of these, end to end:
    5300 [​IMG] 40" X 17" WINDOW FOR MASONRY
    Even though it's a set of 3 instead of 2, it's the closest thing I've found. Besides, I'm not a rivet counter.
    As for the large windows on the west (railroad north) end, I'm thinking about using these:
    5029 [​IMG] 27" x 64" WINDOW DOUBLE HUNG -8 PANE
    Grant Line doesn't seem to have the small windows next to them.
    For the large window on the front right (facing the tracks), I might be able to modify this:
    5010 [​IMG] 60"x 120" ROUNDHOUSE WINDOW-40 PANE (for masonry buildings)
    The bay window on the front is anyone's guess. I'll probably have to scratch build it but I don't know where to start.
    For the doors on the front left, this is the closest thing I've found:
    5063 [​IMG] NARROW GAUGE CABOOSE DOORS
    Grandt Line doesn't seem to have to door to the right of the bay window.
    Sulligent Depot.jpg
    sulli000.JPG
    I found this drawing by a local artist in a local cafe. I've seen a better image of the back side of the depot somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it again. For now, this is the only glimpse of the back side that I can find. At least it's more than I had. Excuse the Christmas lights in the reflection.
    Sulligent Depot SE corner.jpg
    Sulligent Depot3.png
    Sulligent Depot Floor Plan.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  5. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Warning! Warning! Once you start scratch building your structures you'll never be happy with kits. Don't say I didn't warn you.
     
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  6. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Your warning is almost 4 years too late. My Sulligent Cotton Oil Co. building was my first attempt. It certainly wasn't the greatest, but it proved to be rewarding. Truthfully, the only reason I built it is because I couldn't find a kit... which I suppose it true for almost everything. Thus the reason I have to scratch build the depot... to get what I want.
     
  7. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Man, time really flies! The older I get, the faster it flys. I've let my layout stagnate a bit but your posts are beginning to motivate me.
     
  8. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Jim (or anyone else), can you recommend any other scratch build suppliers other than Walthers and Grandt Line? I still need to find parts that I haven't been able to find.
     
  9. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    There's several out there. Google results in more detail parts than you can shake a stick at. Rusty Stumps, Vector Cut etc.
     
  10. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thank you, Jim. Hopefully I can find what I need. In other news, I took the measurements on the floor plan and divided them by 87.
    Sulligent Depot HO Measurements.gif
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  11. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Do you have an HO scale ruler? I find it indispensable for scratchbuilding.
     
  12. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    I can't believe I haven't seen photos of the Sulligent depot before. I'd definitely remember this one. It seems to take the "modernized" Frisco depots to a whole new level. I think this one begs to be scratchbuilt; even if only 85-90% accurate, I think anyone from that area would have no problem identifying it.

    I'm still hoping that Jim or Keith will scratchbuild the late-1920s Cape Girardeau depot. Alas, it's fallen way back on my "maybe someday" list. :)

    Best Regards,
     
    trainchaser007 likes this.
  13. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Sometimes I ask myself, "Why didn't I think of that first?" I just came up with another tweaked track plan that allows for a longer double track through town (at the top) and still has dog bones that require only a 4'x4' footprint each. The new minimum footprint for this layout is now only 12'x9'. That's good because I can fit it in a 12'x'12' portable building and still have some space in the corners for other things. To put a building where I want it, I realized that I need one that is only 12'x 12' or 12' x 16' at the most. I really needed to come up with a plan that would fit in a 12'x12' building and still have a little extra space in the corners. I think I've succeeded without giving up too much. The dog bone on the left is for a 12'x9' layout in a 12'x12' building. The one on the right is for a 12'x12' layout in a 12'x16' building. I'm probably going to go with the smaller one. I could have longer sidings (dog bones) if I wasn't concerned about benchwork and "reach." I must say that the idea of longer sidings is growing on me regardless of benchwork, especially since I'm planning on the layout being at desk height only. That would help a lot with "reach" issues. Stay tuned.
    Layout 101.gif
     
  14. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Another tweak, this time without using flex track in the plan so that I could get a better idea of the length of each track (even though I intend to use flex track on the layout). According to my calculations, for each dog bone, the 22" main is about 10 ft long, the 18" siding is about 8.5 ft long, and the 15" siding is about 6 ft long. All four industrial sidings about 3 ft long. The footprint is still 12'x9', and the dog bone footprints are still 4'x4'. The industrial sites in each dog bone are subject to change, but the plan for everything else is definitely settling down. I have a running loop, plenty of sidings, and at least four opportunities for switching.
    Layout 102.gif
     
  15. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    I think I can make my sidings a little longer by using curved turnouts. I like the way the springs in Peco turnouts hold the points up against the rails, but I need turnouts with inside radii of 22" to maintain 22" radii throughout the S-curves. The smallest Peco curved turnout that I've been able to find is their #7 with an inside radius of 36". (http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3322&CAT_ID=3327&P_ID=17396) I'm not sure that would fit in my 22" radii S-curves. Does anyone know of ANY curved (code 100) turnout with an inner radius of 22"? The software I use doesn't include curved turnouts as an option, so I used flex track to get as close as I could to what I have in mind.
    Layout 104.gif
     
  16. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

  17. Friscotony

    Friscotony Member

    Go to Walthers site and look up the code 100 curved turnouts. They are made by shinahara and are D.C.C. ready.

    Tony LaLumia
     
  18. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thanks Robert.
    I have a Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 that a Bachmann repairman told me requires a minimum of 22" radius curves. Peco ST244's and ST245's are too tight. Even the Shinohara #6's inside, 20" radius is a little tight. I think a Shinohara #7 (24"/28") would work better but I haven't found it yet in code 100, only code 83. It doesn't look as though Shinohara points stay up against the rails the way Peco points do. Atlas has a code 83 turnout that is 22"/30". Those radii would be perfect if they made it in code 100... even though I'm not a big fan of Atlas turnouts because they too don't push the points up against the rails the way that Peco turnouts do. I really don't want to use Atlas turnouts and I really don't want to transition back and forth between code 100 and code 83, but I may have to. In the meantime, I would still like more code 100 ideas, especially anything with Peco turnouts.
    Below are two images of my 12x9 dog bone layout, shown with all code 83 track and the Atlas code 83 curved turnouts. I simply put two curved turnouts together and two #8's together. It aligns perfectly (with a little flex track), but I have so much code 100 track that I need to reuse. However, the Atlas code 83 curved turnout is almost enough to make me switch completely over to code 83. In the images below, all curves on the main have a minimum radius of 22". The end curves are 22", 18", and 15". I'll probably end up using flex track and making them 22", 19", and 16" since I want all 3 curves to be as large as possible without having equipment on one track side swiping equipment on another track. Larger curves = longer sidings = longer trains. Then again, I may leave it as 22", 18" and 15" just to help avoid any potential for collisions with equipment on parallel tracks. The industrial spurs include #4 turnouts and 18" radius curves.
    Some of my 4 axle diesels and 0-4-0's stall on my current insulated turnouts, especially at low speeds. Since I run DC and since this plan is basically a loop, would it help to use turnouts with electrified frogs? How would electrified frogs affect a transition to DCC if I were to transition at some point in the future? snapshot.gif
    #1.gif
     
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  19. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    It's not a big deal... Don't let the difference in rail size be an impediment to getting the trackage that you need.
    https://www.walthers.com/transition-rail-joiners-code-83-to-code-100
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
    trainchaser007 likes this.
  20. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Brandon, any length of rail that is un-powered is problematic in DC or DCC. Electrifying all rail (points, frogs included) will serve to provide the best in operating characteristics. If the points are separated from the frog, you can use very fine wire to bond the points to their appropriate stock rails for better operation. The frog has to be electrified with the correct polarity based on the position of the points. This can be done electro-mechanically with a switch such as a microswitch for DC or DCC, or for DCC it can be done with an auto-reverser circuit such as the Tam Valley Depot Frog Juicer for DCC.
     
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