Source for "balloon" or rounded roofs for heavy weights

Discussion in 'Passenger Equipment' started by friscomike, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Howdy,

    Is there a source for rounded heavy weight passenger car roofs that might be appropriate for a/c passenger cars? I saw a posting about a car with the appropriate roof, but I hate to buy a car for $50 and throw everything but the roof away.

    Best,
    mike
     
  2. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    In N scale, there are several sources for the "Harriman" roof. I don't know if such is available in HO?? But you might look for Harriman roofs as you search. They're a good match for the Frisco cars (Coaches, Baggage, RPO's) from AC&F 1926-30. The later Frisco home built "Turtle-Back" roofs of the 1930's have a "fatter" cross-section. The old Walthers wood and tin kits have roofs that could be shaped to either profile.

    Tom
     
  3. SAFN SAAP

    SAFN SAAP Member

    What length car?
     
  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Mike, I don't know of a source for full turtleback roofs. However, if you're starting with a clerestory roof and want to try to convert, New England Rail makes air conditioning duct kits:

    http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/529-250

    There was also a 2 or 3-part series in MR back in the early 90s by Bill Darnaby on converting Pullman cars; he went into detail on how he scratchbuilt ductwork to turn a clerestory roof car into a turtleback. I kept it so that I could eventually convert some Spectrum cars into reasonable Frisco prototypes.

    Best Regards,
     
  5. SAFN SAAP

    SAFN SAAP Member

    Terry,

    If these are Walther's cars, contact Walther's customer service and see if they have the parts you can buy. They keep all the damaged stock for repair purposes. Give it a shot. The worst they can say is "NO." It's a toll-free call too!

    Manny
     
  6. Rancho Bob

    Rancho Bob Member

    Well, there's always NORTHEASTERN.... http://www.northeasternscalelumber.com/ I bought clerestory roof stock from them in the 60's. Also, Terry, I don't think Manny was implying that your stuff was damaged, but that Walthers had a grab-bin full of damaged stuff that they might sell if you needed something unique. I guess the question is ...WHICH cars are you trying to build? Not all arch roof cars were air-conditioned (baggage for ex:) and, AFAIK, FRISCO's arch roof profiles were not "Harriman" style...or the flatter arch roofs produced by Bethlehem Steel. They were the "Pullman Mfg" cross-section, more like a bowstring truss without the truss portion.

    Buck Dean
    JAX
     
  7. SAFN SAAP

    SAFN SAAP Member

    Buck has it right Terry. Just contact Walthers and ask them if they have the roof pieces to car 9xx-xxxx. You don't need to go into details. They'll let you know if they have them and how much they are. All you'll be doing is picking over damaged cars that were saved for parts needed by those who have good cars damaged or need kitbashing gear like you. Like I said, the worst they can say is "NO." The Northeastern link looks interesting.
     
  8. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    FYI, I stumbled across the article on Kitbashing Heavyweight Pullmans by Bill Darnaby. Part I was the April 1989 Model Railroader, while Part II followed in May, 1989.

    Best Regards,
     
  9. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks folks, I really appreciate the ideas. ~mike
     
  10. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    Ever since Walthers first produced the 70' ACF baggage car a few years ago people have been asking them to produce a turtleback roof version. They have always resonded that they are planning to do so, but when questioned as to when the answer is always "in the future". I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would be quick to snap up a couple, the only question then being whether I would want them green or red and silver! So if any of you are talking to Walthers, you might remind them about the promised baggage car.

    Gordon
     
  11. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    If I can't find arched roofs that fit, I'd like to make or get one master, then make resin castings of the others. I have a lot of casting experience, so I don't think they would be hard to make using "squish" two part molds and urethane resin. Now, where can I find the old Walther's roofs, better check the cabinet first...

    Best,
    mike
     
  12. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    A while back I bought a Walthers paired roof coach with the clerestory roof. Later on, they put the "modernized" coaches on sale and I bought one of them and swapped roofs and sold the modernized coach with the clerestory roof on it. Worked out well. I tried to talk Walthers into selling the roofs separate, but no dice.
     
  13. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Terry--Have you got a link to the Roundhouse cars you mention? I can't locate any photos. I'm in N scale, but I might be able to give you some info on Frisco head end cars. I've done some of this very kind of searching in N scale.

    Tom
     
  14. FriscoFriend

    FriscoFriend Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    To All:

    Try this:

    http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=archroofpass+RND&CatID=THRP&New=1

    You need to click on one of the offerings with an image and then after it loads you can use the zoom-in feature and move your mouse over the image to magnify it. If this roof will work, couldn't one splice two together for the long cars. I realize that is an expensive option, but maybe Athearn would be willing to sell roofs separately.
     
  15. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    These cars aren't very close to any Frisco cars. The Frisco didn't have any 60' baggage cars (OR RPO's) with turtleback roofs. The SLSF 60' baggage cars and 60' full RPO's had monitor roofs. The Roundhouse/Athearn 60' RPO would require a lot of kit-bashing to get close to the Frisco's window arrangement.
    You might use two baggage car roofs (For some other car), then put monitor (Clerestory) roofs on them. But Athearn's baggage car doors are also different than the Frisco's. These Athearn/Roundhouse "Harriman" cars aren't much at all like any Frisco cars. All (But two) Frisco passenger carrying cars (Coaches, chair cars, buffets, diners, business cars etc.) were 80' cars. Only 768 and 769 were 72 footers. And, as Bob says using a car just for the roofs is kind of expensive. It might be better to have some arch roofs custom made than try to customize these cars.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2011
  16. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    I actually think the roofs themselves would be OK, the "Harriman" roof is fairly similar to the Frisco roof but, you'd have to have two of them for one good car and you'd hate to junk two cars for just one roof.
    A custom made roof is probably the best way to go if you can find someone handy with plastics or epoxy molds. Shame there aren't more available HO models with Frisco-like window patterns and the "Frisco look" and general configuration.

    Tom
     
  17. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

  18. mktjames

    mktjames Member

    No pressure on FriscoMike but I have given him a couple of MDC roofs and end pieces to splice together to make a master pattern. I bought six MDC harriman kits that were roofs and bodies , with no frames or trucks on ebay.. I spliced two roofs together and painted them for balloon roofs on walthers and Rivarossi heavyweight baggage and rpo cars. I left the banding and stacks on my roofs and these holes will have to be filled to make Frisco smooth balloon roofs. Mike has made good castings for the harbor area at the TWMRC. mktjames
     
  19. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Howdy,

    Thanks to Terry for providing me a wooden roof to begin, I am also working on making cast resin balloon roofs. The master is finished and will need seems, vents, etc added per the model you're building. I don't plan to make and sell these as a commercial enterprise (hey, I am retired), but will provide them to Frisco folks for the cost of materials and shipping.

    Stay tuned. I hope to begin making the test roofs this week or next.

    James has given me another alternative that I'll work on, too. Thanks James.

    Best,
    mike
     
  20. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Howdy folks,

    We've created a balloon roof casting for passenger cars that is made of resin. It is easy to sand and shape, and looks like it will make a nice looking roof. It is finished smooth in a semi-gloss. I'll upload an image of one of the castings when I get more resin (in the mail).

    Terry provided me with a casting master, I cleaned it up and worked the roof to make it smooth. The ends are not finished, allowing them to be fitted to different lengths of cars. I'll let Terry vouch for their quality.

    Terry suggested offering them FRISCo_Org members for a donation to FRISCo_Org for a specific amount to cover costs. We'd pay for the materials from the donated funds, plus add a little to the kitty for maintaining the website. I don't really want to be in the roof casting business, but I don't mind making them for FRISCo_Org members who need balloon, turtle back, or Harriman style roofs. The resin cost to make the roofs is about $5.50. We'd probably use the cheapest USPS method of shipping which would be extra.

    What do you think?

    Best,
    mike
     

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