SLSF 4524

Discussion in '4-8-4 Northern' started by Karl, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    There could be no longer any doubt. Steam on the Frisco is dead! The biggest and best are being stuffed and mounted for display in museums and municpal parks. In shots taken during the fall of 1953, the 4524 awaits more sprucing-up before she heads for retirement. Sans lettering, a big locomotive looks even larger.

    At least the 4524 will escape the torch, and she will spend her days at Grant Beach Park, Springfield, MO. Sadly she has spent more time in the park than she did producing ton-miles for the Frisco.

    As is known by devotees of Frisco steam, she made the trip to her final resting place under her own power so to speak. Her boiler was charged with compressed air and she "steamed" down Calhoun Street, after departing the West Belt. Just several sections of panel track provided the temporary route to the park.

    As I recall the details, the track had been cribbed through a low spot on Calhoun Street in order to provide a more tolerable vertical curve. As the 4524 negotiated the sag, she almost went over. Had that happened, she probably would have been cut up on the spot.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2009
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    SLSF 4524's move to Grant Beach Park

    The folks that caretake the 4524 have acquired some color, home movies of the locomotive's move to Grant Beach Park, and burned it to a DVD. The quality is just average, but the content makes-up for any difficiencies. There are a few surprises on the dvd as well.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2007
  3. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    12" to the Foot Frisco Brass

    Looking as if she has just come from the importer's foam-filled box, 4524 has the appearance of a 12-inch-to-the-foot brass locomotive. These shots were taken during January 1987.

    Delivered to Springfield's Grant Beach Park in the Frisco basic black, the 4524 remained in that scheme until 1987, when she was sand blasted and primed for her new coat. I believe that this may have been her first repainting since her arrival at the park. Clark Hungerford was no longer on the scene, and the 4524 returned to her Frisco Faster Freight livery.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2008
  4. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

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  5. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    The old girl looks nice, but could somebody PLEASE paint over the whitewalls and counterbalances with some good old black paint?
     
  6. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    4524

    I've been told by someone close to the project that 4524 is receiving a fresh paint job. That's the good news.
    The bad news is that "The Board" has made the decision to paint the tires and counterbalances silver as someone had done before.
    The has to be a way to start a letter writing or emailing campaign to stop this total lunacy. I just can't understand why you would go to the trouble to repaint the engine, put the FFF logo back on and then ruin it by painting it like a circus engine.
    Forgive me for ranting, but this is one of my biggest pet peeves with display equipment.
    People of Friscoland, rise up and overturn this travesty.
     
  7. ashnme

    ashnme locoengr

    Re: 4524

    Don, could you take a look at my post on the paint scheme of the 4524. Also if you are close to Springfield come out and help us.

    Bill Houser
    President Railroad Historical Museum
    Springfield, MO
     
  8. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Re: 4524

    I sent a PM Bill.
     
  9. ashnme

    ashnme locoengr

    Re: 4524

    Don, thanks for replying about the paint on the 4524 with a private message but if you go to the trouble to indicate that its LUNACY and a TRAVESTY about the paint scheme on the 4524 posted on this forum then your reply should have been done on the forum as well. We are taking into consideration painting the smoke box back to as close to factory as possible but the pictures we have will make it a challange. I also feel that no matter what scheme we use someone will not like it or say its not the right colors.

    We have a web site so if the people need to contact us it will be easy to do so. www.railroadhistoricalmuseum.zoomshare.com

    Once again we are always looking for people to volunteer and help us at the museum. And we are open to ideas that will improve the museum as we are trying to preserve railroading history.

    Bill Houser
    President Railroad Historical Museum Inc.
    Springfield, MO
     
  10. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Re: 4524

    Bill, here is the PM that I sent. I apologize for the Lunacy and Travesty remarks, but I have seen so many of these projects go sideways because someone who has no idea of what the locomotive should look like in order to resemble what it was in it's glory decides to put some outlandish paint job on it, such as the 1527.
    Re the smokebox and firebox, a flat(ish) black would closely resemble what she looked like as delivered and in service. I've never measured the numbers on the tender with the FFF logo, but they appear to be about 3" too tall, but that's a minor thing.
    Once again, we all appreciate the effort you folks are putting into the restoration, just as we appreciate the 4500 and 4502 restorations recentl done.
    Here is the PM:
    Mr. Houser,
    We are all appreciative of all the hours that have been put into the cosmetic restoration of the 4524. I for one can appreciate your efforts as I was involved in the original restoration to operation of the 1522 and served as its Chief Mechanical Officer and one of the three FRA certified engineers from 1988-2002 so I know what you have done.
    My comments about the paint job are from a viewpoint of authenticity. I’m sure you know the 4524 never sported whitewalls or painted counterbalances in her career. She only had two different paint schemes from 1943 until her retirement. As delivered, she had the attractive FFF logo on the tender and stripes. After Clark Hungerford became president of the Frisco he decreed all the fancy paintwork would be eliminated at the first shopping or painting, resulting in 4524 being painted plain black with 30” high numbers centered on the tender.
    Painting of “Park Engines” can and has reached extremes. Worst case I have ever seen is Frisco 1527 in Mobile AL. It looks like whoever painted the engine was high on acid. The drivers are bright red with whitewalls and it goes downhill from there. I’m sure the engine and former Frisco folks in Mobile are embarrassed by it. 1501 in Rolla for a time had a circus train paint job until someone came along and did the job correctly (although with whitewalls).
    It sounds like your mind is made up, and family health issues prohibit me from coming down to help, so I wish you the best with the restoration.
    Don Wirth
     
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: 4524

    Don - Excellent response.

    As evidence for what Don is saying, look what "they" did to my all-time favorite Frisco steam locomotive, SLSF 1501, in Rolla, in the early 1980's. It's good the town-folk gave her a much needed paint job (1501 hadn't been painted since the Frisco did it in 1956 before donating it), but my goodness, folks, what were you thinking?

    Ken
     

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  12. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Re: 4524

    All of this has caused me to think back about when we were in Springfield with the 1522 for the Frisco Museum function. I got into a heated discussion with a guy who was maybe 5 years older than me who insisted the 1500s were painted green and he remembered seeing them that way.
    I think that was also the time I was visiting with Ed Heiss and Lee Buffington and told them if I went to the hardware store and bought the black paint, could they pick the lock on the 4524 gate and I would fix it. They weren't happy with it either, especially Lee.
     
  13. ashnme

    ashnme locoengr

    Don, this all got started with a young man that has only been to the museum a few times and has really never worked on the project except to hand tools to the men doing the real work. Nothing had been decided about the smoke box when he posted and he is not a member of the board of directors just a volunteer.

    The smoke box will be painted the flat black color, and you cannot believe how hard it is to find a paint and the flat color needed. We have looked for 2 days and have yet to find one that matches or is close to the pictures we have. Again we have a lot of pictures and most look different depending on the time and shop or location taken.

    Again our biggest problem at the museum is finding people to staff and help even with the smallest things. You would think that in a town the size of Springfield and the history with the Frisco that we would have a line of people wanting to help but there are Saturdays that we have just enough people to open the gate. If the number continues to decline the 4524 will become just a park engine to be looked at from outside of a fence.

    The volunteers we are looking for do not need to have worked for a railroad or know much about one just have a desire to learn and visit with the visitors. It's 2 hours once a week or less and if someone has more time there is always something to do. We do have two ladies this year who are helping and would like to have as many as possible.

    May is almost filled with birthday partys for kids and they are always excited to come to the museum and park. And we are always glad to have them. There are NO paid staff at the museum and all of our money comes from donations also the addmission is free.

    Bill Houser
    President Railroad Historical Museum
    Springfield, MO
     
  14. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    The smokebox and firebox sides on Frisco engines were graphite, not black. The Cab roof was always RED. The rest of the engine and tender was painted Black.
     
  15. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    You might wish to rethink those facts. There are color photos around that are contrary to your statement.
     
  16. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I agree with Karl. Red cab roofs were never painted on the 4500s, and they used either a black heatproof paint, or very dark graphite on the smokebox/fireboxes of the 4500s.
    I'm not sure what kind of paint you are using on the 4524, but Rustoleum makes both a Satin Black and a Flat Black oil enamel. Whatever you are using, you should be able to get a flattish black paint shade in it.
    The only cab roofs on 4500s that were other than black were the 4500-4502, which were a light gray color with the Meteor paint scheme. Post Hungerford, they were black engines througout with Dulux Yellow numbers. The rest of the 4500s were black with white numbers.
     
  17. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    I did not know that the cab roofs on the 4500's were not painted red, however, as
    Don states above, the smokebox, and fireboxes were painted graphite, and it is not black. Look at the Frisco 1522.
     
  18. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    Here is a photo of the 4524, if you look closely, you will see that the firebox is a graphite gray, I do not know why the smokebox is so dark.
     

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  19. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    I do know if the side rods and running gear on the 4500's was stainless steel or not, probably not; however, the running gear was never painted for safety reason, it would hide any flaws in the steel, same reason couplers and wheels are never painted. I believe they were oiled with waste while they were in service, so please do not paint them silver again, perhaps a clear stain for protection but not paint. The Frisco did not paint wheel tires white or silver either, they and the whole wheel should be black. The 1501 and 1527 are sure in a sad state, I agree.
     
  20. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Richard -

    Fortunately, 1501 in Rolla has been repainted at least once since. Though not at all perfect, it at least returned the locomotive to an appearance close to reality.

    But,, it's still sad - I can't bear to look at it for long because of all the stuff that has been stolen from it or broken by vandals. When I graduated from MSM in 1964, SLSF 1501 still looked largely the same as Baldwin and the Frisco shops made her. Not so now.

    Ken
     

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