Discussion in 'Electo-Motive Division (EMD)' started by gjslsffan, Feb 5, 2014.
This is pretty accurate; it matches the photographic evidence
Karl - That is most likely the source of my adding the rear numbers to my Athearn F7 years ago. I certainly used that set of Microscale decals on them. Thanks.
Thanks Ken and Karl,
I referred to the Microscale diagrams as well, sometimes thy are not that accurate but they are this time. Thanks for helping with the info.
Neat diagram, Karl. I'd never really thought of it, but I don't think I've ever seen a photo of the rump side of any of the Frisco's cab units.
I've tried to carefuly scrutinize all of the B-unit photos in "Frisco in Color" and "Frisco Power" to see if I can positively identify EMD builder's plates, but haven't had any luck. I did see some photos were it sometimes it appears that the "A" unit builders plates were painted over?
One other item on, at least the O&W F9B units - they labeled the "F" end. No clue as to why.
None of the F9B photos that I scanned had visible builders plates.
I wonder if it was because the B units were draw-bared to A units at one time, and simply didnt get the builders plates or some of the markings.
The F-3's, F-7's and F-9's A's and B's weren't connected with drawbars, only the FT's. Also the FT B's were shorter too I believe.
There were FTB's (full length) and FTSB's, i.e., a Short Booster.
The B-units had EMD serial numbers, so the absence a builder's plate is curious.
During my daily perusal of the "Frisco Archive," I used the tag cloud for "F9B," and found three good o/w photos of nos. 141, 145 and 151.
151 most clearly shows the small numbers on the end, above what appears to be some safety wording. The others also have them, albeit obscured by the camera angle and generous quantities of grime.
A close-up of the sides of each show a conspicuous and glaring absence of any EMD builder's plates.
Especially with Karl's note that these had individual EMD serial numbers, it's a most curious absence indeed. I'll have to keep an eye open for any B units in b/y and hope that they'll show whether the builder's plates were originally included.
This is great information for sure, the knowledge base here never ceases to amaze.
Thanks everyone for the input and help. As luck would have it I did put the numbers on the ends as Chris described, although I will challenge anyone to make the numbers out as you need an electron microscope to see them on the decal sheet, you cant make the numbers out even with magnifying glasses. Whew those things are small. I believe the safety wording to be the "BE CAREFUL" that was on about every piece of equipement the Frisco ever had.
Not directly Frisco related since all of their passenger F units were FP7's with cabs, but the Santa Fe and I believe others that wanted passenger F-Units opted to put the steam boiler in the B-Units. Therefore on smaller passenger runs they had to run two unit consists on their passenger runs. I remember growing up in Independence, KS in the late "60's and seeing the "Tulsan" and the "Oil Flyer" with two powered units and 3 or 4 lightweight passenger cars. Essentially an E-Unit with two prime movers but longer and having 4 more traction motors. That meant back-up power if one of the prime movers failed unlike an FP7 or a boiler geep.
I also believe they kept a boiler geep at Chanute, KS which was a half-way division point in case they needed one. One night the "Tulsan" came through powered by only a black zebra striped boiler geep.
Interesting about the Tulsan and Oil Flyer, two neat "pike-size" passenger trains. Some roads like the Monon had steam generator equipped "A" unit F's.
Neat recollections, Bob. Thanks for sharing. My first-ever, truly "Frisco" model that I made was of an F7A using an old Athearn blue box F7A that was steam boiler equipped. Since it's my only F-unit, I wish I'd left the steam boiler on made a good-enough FP7 for use on one of the pike-sized trains, as Tom's noted.
Not only did I realize that I'd been too hasty in removing the boiler, I also realized I'd gaffe in leaving the dynamic brake fan on.
Below are a couple links to the SL-SF 143, (didn't want to get flamed for showing the photos) Both photos are shown as taken in 1969. The fallenflags photo kinda shows the vertical hand grabs for going in the car body as a lighter color, but it could just be grimy dust too. The archives photo clearly shows them as Black to me. I was wondering if any of you know if the vertical grabs were ever painted Yellow on EMD F units?
I hand bent all the grabs for this today, boy they sure had a lot of vertical hand grabs on these B units.
Good question, Tom. Every photo I'm seeing of either an A or B unit in Marre & Sommers' Frisco in Color shows black vertical grabs for the b/y cigar band schemes, with one distinct exception.
F9A #5005 along with 4 other F9Bs and an uidentified A unit on the end are shown, lashed up at OKC. The lead A and following B units have yellow grabs. The only exception seems to the the distant A unit, which not only still appears to have black grabs, but also appears to be in the truncated cigar band only, with no gold striping on the sides.
This photo is dated February, 1965; the photos of F units with black grabs all appear to be pre-1965.
In one of those curious instances of inconsistency, F3A #5009 shows black grabs but with the front nose grabs on the cigar band in yellow. Otherwise, all other A units show the nose grabs in black until the aforementioned 1965 photo of #5005.
Incidentally, any photos of cab units in o/w show the vertical grabs in white.
Pictures in Marre's Frisco In Color show F-unit grabs mostly black (earlier) and yellow (later). The Alco builder's photos show the FA's grabs were originally yellow. Then, thumbing through the color shots in the picture collection saved to my PC, there are both black and yellow grabs on all Frisco road freight engines types: F-3, F-7, A & B, FP-7, F-9B, FA, FB. Generally: EMD's oriiginally black, Alcos originally yellow. Doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule for later??
I see what you guys are talking about. An interesting variation to model, guess I could paint one side Yellow, the other Black and be OK
On page 9 in GS's book bottom right, there appears to be an F9B second in the consist, that caption shows it as an F7B, but I think I see a dyn brake grid fan on it as well as the number 5144 re#'ed to 144 and should be an F9B, and it clearly shows the vertical grabs in Yellow.
Tom, I'd be careful; perhaps it is the sunlight reflecting off the grabs that make them appear yellow. In the photo above, the middle unit looks to be an F9B (compare the air intake grills) and has black grab irons.
Aside from the photos that clearly show the grabs Yellow (on later dates it looking). The lighter colors on some of the older shots may be the Black paint wearing off the grabs.I wonder if they painted the sides of these units Yellow at the factory, masked the Yellow, and then painted the Black. And what we may be seeing is the Yellow layer underneath.
I am just wondering if thats what we see in some photos.
I dont know as it was way before my time, but think I remember reading about the FRA or one of those (groups) had the idea to paint the vertical hand grabs in a color that contrasts with the units basic or dominate color to help crews to see the grabs easier in some conditions.
I don't have my copy handy at the moment but there are a lot of F/FA/FB lash-ups in Greg Stout's FIC V2 that have yellow grabs. If I got a b/y unit out of the box from the factory (Like the Intermountain N Scale FP-7's hopefully soon), I wouldn't worry if the grabs were either black or yellow.
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