NEW ATHEARN AIRSLIDE HOPPER

Discussion in 'Covered Hoppers' started by FriscoFriend, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. FriscoFriend

    FriscoFriend Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    For future reference purposes and pose a question at the same time, Athearn has just announced production of a brand new GATC 2600 Airslide Hopper. The information sheet (see link below) states these were an early version produced between 1955 and 1965 and of a single discharge design.

    http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/012009/10_GATC_Airslide_012009.jpg

    Now for the question. Molo's book has a photo on page 105 of a car that looks very similar to this one only he states it is a two discharge version. One can't tell by the photo. He also references that the Frisco initially leased 8 of these. Did the Frisco have any of the single discharge version that would match the model Athearn is producing and if so I need to obtain a copy of it to forward to Athearn?

    Thanks in advance.

    Bob Hoover
    FriscoFriend
     
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    81500-81507
     

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  3. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Re: NEW ATHEARN AIRSLIDE HOPPER (artwork photos request)

    Does anyone have a clear high rez scan of the Frisco photo/builders photo of a Frisco Airslide in either SLSF or GACX reporting marks.

    I am working with a well regarded designer on making artwork for Airslides and we wanted to capture as many variations on the small lettering on these cars for a decal sheet. Logos will be on separate sheet.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  4. rayw

    rayw Member

    My first time posting on this forum AND I'm going to try and include a photo. Sure hope this works. Builders photo of GACX 42253.
     

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  5. rayw

    rayw Member

    Builders photo of SLSF 81522.
     

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  6. rayw

    rayw Member

    Builders photo of SLSF 81532.
     

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  7. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Thanks Ray for posting the scans. Is there anyway of get a slightly higher resolution. This will help with the small lettering details.

    Thanks Nick
     
  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Ray - nice shots! I've always been an Airslide fan - we used a lot of them in the chemical industry.

    I'm surprised 81522 does not show the small word "AIRSLIDE" in the upper left side corner. Perhaps the Frisco added that later - I seem to recall seeing that there on every Frisco "slide" I've seen.

    Ken

    ps - Notice 81532 is a lined car (enamel), as is 42253 (poly-clutch). Can't tell what 81522 has.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2010
  9. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Ken,

    What chemical industry would that be? Loading with? yes, I think the Airslide stencil was added by Frisco shortly after delivery or the first re-painting.

    Nick


     
  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    We shipped several food, pharma and technical grade inorganic phosphate salts in Airslides, plus some other detergent products that caked or hung up in hoppers easily. Many of our products are fine powders - they can easily bridge over the hopper discharge from a regular LO, especially after riding the rails for a while and compacting along the way. Needed the airslide action to keep the material flowing.

    We also used PD (pressure differential) cars on some of the difficult ones.

    Some of the products absorb water easily in high humidity weather (some are even deliquescent). The car is filled with 50-tons of powder on the loading end, but when it arrived at the customer, it was one 50-ton block surrounded by a covered hopper car. Not good!

    Ken
     
  11. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Thanks Ken,

    By your description is sounds like P&G. Is Proctor & Gamble the company you speak of? How long did you work there? Where was the raw phosphate coming from ATSF New Mexico, SCL Central Florida?

    PD cars like the NAHX PDs? 3000cf? Similar to the Frisco's versions?

    Nick

     
  12. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Nick,

    I was with Monsanto.

    Procter & Gamble (they have a card they give out that says "it's 'er damit!") was a major and very valued customer of ours - I was the Monsanto account manager in Cincinnati who handled them back in the 1970's. It was one of the best jobs I ever had. For a long time Monsanto was the biggest chemical supplier to the detergent industry.

    The phosphates you are thinking about are ag grade, and come from Florida, Louisiana, etc, or out west. Ours were much higher assay, and were processed by a totally different technology to get to tech, pharma and food grade quality, and are much more of a specialty product. Our ores were mined in Idaho and Tennessee. The Idaho operation still runs as we speak.

    Yes we used PD cars - don't recall if they were NAHX or whose. Airslides were more common. I have a pic of a Frisco PD car around here somewhere.

    Ken
     
  13. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Ken,

    Very interesting, my next guess was going to be Monsanto across the river in Wood River. So, does that mean you had your office in Cincy or St. Louis? Thanks for the clarification on the higher assay of ore necessary for Monsanto's refining.

    So, the large Cincy P&G plant made detergents as well as pharmaceuticals, interesting. Therefore, did the Frisco Airslides ping-pong between the Monsanto Wood River plant to Cincy? The raw ore from ID and TN came in what type of car? Via UP I suppose.

    I was told by a L&N employee that limestone powder from central Alabama was also mined for P&G to make Roll-aids. What an interesting company P&G was back then. Do you have a good run down of chemicals that P&G received in the seventies? I'm always interested in learning more about car movements and industries.

    Thanks Nick

     
  14. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Nick -

    Monsanto never had a plant in Wood River. There are, or were, several plants here in StL, but the only local phosphate plant here is in South St Louis at Carondelet. It is now part of a different company. Others were in New Jersey, Michigan, Georgia, Ohio, California, Mexico and Brazil.

    The base raw material plants were in TN and ID. Tennessee was closed in 1985, while Idaho is still going strong. The ore mine there is some 25 miles from the plant (on top of a mountain!), and it is simply trucked down to the plant in huge, triple trailer rigs on a private haul road. Our competitors also mined in the area, and did rail material out to their downstream plants via UP's Conda branch down to the UP's OSL at Soda Springs. We mined ore locally at the operations in both Tennessee and Idaho, where it was processed into a refined form, then shipped by rail to the downstream phosphate plants where it is converted into tech, food, dental and pharma products. We had some 950 different phosphate product SKU's. They were sold to a whole host of customers besides just P&G, though P&G was our biggest customer.

    The pic I have of a Frisco Pressure Differential covered hopper is a Mike Condren slide - SLSF 81052. See his web site. In a PD car you actually aerate the material while pressuring the load and car up a bit, then let it blow out the discharge piping as you maintain the pressure. The Airslide just aerates the material sitting on the hopper slope sheets, letting it "slide" out of the discharge doors.

    Ken

    ps - Per my 1979 ORER, the Frisco had three PD LO's - SLSF 81050-81052. Anybody have a diagram?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2010
  15. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Ken,

    OK, I was thinking of Olin-Mathieson at Wood River next to the Shell facility my poor memory. It also makes sense that Monsanto was on the MO side therefore the Frisco involvment. From what i can find out the plant in the St' Louis area is Chesterfield, i would assume it is the Carondelet plant you speak of or are they two different ones. Both of them served by MP and SLSF, correct?

    I'm interested in the Georgia plant would that have been in Albany, Cartesville, Leesburg or Tifton in the late seventies?

    I suppose my question was confusing about the railcar types that carried the refined Phosphate I was interested in the car types that delivered the more refined product to the St' Louis location, not at the mine.
    I would assume a large cuft covered hopper.

    Was the TN mine served by the L&N?

    Wow, 950 distinct phosphate family products. I hate to ask, but what other major types of products came out of the St.Louis plant/s? fertilizers, herbicides?

    Yes, I have that Condren photo of the PD car, such a small series of cars it had to be for a specific customer. They were North American Car Co. built and 3000cf, one of the rare railroads that owned this type of car, B&M and PC were the others. Rail Yard Models has an excellent model of this car, but no SLSF reporting marks.

    http://www.railyardmodels.com/catalog/northamericanpd3000.html


    Nick

     
  16. FriscoFriend

    FriscoFriend Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    I have been reading this post with great interest as I worked as a salesman for P&G from the early '80's until the early '90. I believe that P&G may have had several plants around the Cincinnati area but the big one was and still is the Ivorydale plant. I believe soap products were produced there and also in Kansas City, KS among possible other locations.

    I sold HABA (Health & Beauty Aids) including Crest toothpaste which was produced in Iowa City, IA. and possibly other locations. There was, and still is, a huge distibution center there also.

    As a matter of clarificaion, we never made Roll-Aids. In the mid '80's P&G decide to expand it's presence in the lucrative HABA sector and began acquiring smaller conmpanies, one of which was Norwich Eaton which made Pepto-Bismol.

    In the early years P&G was most noted as a "soap" company and then began to diversify into other areas such as HABA, food products, and paper products. One could wonder if such things as phosphates would be used in the manufacturing process of paper items like Charmin & Pampers.

    In later years, P&G has kept acquiring HABA companies (Gillete being a biggie) while spinning off less profitable brands, mainly in the food sector. Peanut Butter (Jif) which is frequently referenced on this site was one of the ones sold off (to Smuckers in this case)
     
  17. FriscoFriend

    FriscoFriend Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    After my last post I remembered an instance that may involve some products that possibly were transported in Airslide hoppers. We rushed the introduction of Crest for Kids to the marketplace due to intense competition from our arch-rival Colgate. Since toothpaste was an ingestible item it needed FDA approval. Three months or so after the initial intoduction a new and improved "Sparkle" version was then introduced. The "Sparkle" in the toothpaste was actually finely ground pumice!

    Also, several years later we acquired Cover Girl and some of their products most likely contained talc which one could also assume would be a good candidate for Airslide's. Back to the subject of Pepto-Bismol, we did have a tablet form and if I remember correctly had magnesium sulfate in it.
     
  18. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Bob,

    I was quoting an ex-L&N employee regarding the Roll-Aids, perhaps he meant to say Pepto. Noentheless, it was marble dust that was produced at Gantt's jct. Alabama, claimed to be the whitest marble. The same marble used for Lincoln Memorial.

    Wasn't there a St. Bernard, OH location for P&G.

    Nick

     
  19. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Nick - Monsanto had/has five plants in the St Louis area - one south of downtown close to the river (Queeny), one across the river (Sauget), one in south St Louis (Carondelet), one in StL county in Olivette, and one out in St Peters. The corporate HQ/General Offices is in the county in Creve Coeur. The Chesterfield location (also StL County) is a major research facility.

    There were/are several plants across the country. My division (Inorganic) had five phosphate plants - the Carondelet plant, plus others in Trenton, MI, Kerany, NJ, Augusta, GA and Long Beach, CA. Their major raw materials in were soda ash (bulk hoppers), caustic soda (t/c's) and elemental phosphorus (company t/c's - MONX, GATX, UTLX). The phosphorus was produced in Tennessee and in Idaho. Idaho was/is served by Uncle Pete, Tennessee was served by the L&N. As I said before, ore was/is shipped from the mine to those two plants via truck. P4 product was/is shipped out from those two to the downstream phosphate plants via company t/c's.

    Phosphate shipments to customers were either via bulk rail or bulk truck, or packaged (40 & 50 lb bags, super-saks) in containers or in semi's.

    Carondelet is served by the UP, formerly MP. Trenton was served by the Soo, Augusta is served by the NS, formerly SR. Long Beach - I'm not sure if it was SP or ATSF. Kearny was served by PRR/PC/CR. Unfortunately, we had no facilities served by the Frisco, though other Monsanto locations were. We did bring in raw materials sourced by the Frisco (lime for one from St Gen)

    The L&N served our TN plant (closed 1985) and ran the P4 t/c's up through Radnor Yard in Nashville. We used to joke about how much of our inventory was sitting at Radnor trying to get through the place. I recall them always being short of road power.

    Phosphates are everywhere, though not so much in detergents any more (that's a long story!). You most likely enjoyed the significant benefits of phosphates during one or more of your meals today. Read the ingredient labels on food products and beverages. Other uses besides food & beverage: industrial & institutional cleaning, pharma, dental, dairy, ceramics, metal finishing, pH control, water treating, etc etc, and yes - laxatives! They are widely used, very effective, very safe. That's why we had 950 different products (SKU's) - acids plus sodium, potassium, calcium, ammonium, magnesium salts - orthos, pyros, polys and longer polymers.

    Back to railroading!

    Ken
     
  20. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I ordered my Athearn Airslides, and the bay window cab as well, from "TTH", i.e., Toy Train Heaven (I hate that name!). Does any one know the status of these from them? I've not heard a word lately.

    Ken
     

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