I don't know if I just can't find it or if it was removed or deleted (Frisco Mike?) but here is the link to my website http://www.chaffeemissouri.com Click on the 'railroads' button for photos and info about the Frisco in Southeast Missouri that I have been collecting for years. I enjoy sharing this stuff with others and maybe someone will find it useful. The reason for this post is that in the next 2 or 3 months there will be a drastic change to an all Frisco site separate from the other city history info there now. I have a ton of new Frisco stuff to add to the site and will actually take a week or so vacation to work on it. Please send me comments and suggestions to make the site better! (I accept photo and info contributions!!!!) It takes a lot of work to build a site of that size and I would like to get it right and also make sure it is appealing to everyone that might stop by the page. Here is something that would help me out right away. What was Chaffee's milepost designation (T-????) during the Frisco days? I know of 3 or 4 different ones but what is correct?
Advice to modelers--Any modeler who is interested in small and/or early Frisco steam should explore the photos in Tim's website! There also hundreds of background details in the pictures including water and oil tanks and rolling stock. Tom
Tim, nearly every River Division ETT that I have looked at lists Chaffee as M.P. 143.6, (1925, 1937, 1940, 1952, 1971). I have only seen one timetable where Chaffee was listed as 144, but then what is the difference between 144 and 143.6 other than accuracy? I also have a copy of the right of way profile of the River Division from Lindenwood to Mineral Wells, MS from 12/31/1987 that lists Chaffee as M.P. T-143.6 - I think the preponderous amount of evidence would dictate M.P. T-143.6 is the point for Chaffee.
To add to the confusion, I just reached for the closest Frisco public TT I had available to check the milepost for Chaffee on the River Division. You guessed it, the November, 1960 PTT lists Chaffee at MP 143.8. I then pulled out the other PTT I keep here close to my computer - July, 1935. It also shows Chaffee at MP 143.8. All of the River Division MP's are off by 0.1-0.2 miles between these two PTT's and the 10/71 Frisco ETT. Go figure! Could this have something to do with the dropping of passenger service, and hence not needing to count the short distance between the true eastern end of the Frisco in St Louis and the short run to StL Union Station? Ken
Howdy, Not sure what happened, but last year we lost a lot of links, so I suspect that is what happened. Thanks for reposting the link. Best, mike
Tim: As a fellow Chaffeeite, I have thoroughly enjoyed the Chaffee-specific items (even those separate from the Frisco items). Regarding the MP difference, I've mulled several options, and I haven't the foggiest. Regardless, I'm eager to find out. My only guess is that trackage/trackwork somewhere between SE Junction and Chaffee was shortened at some point? I'll have to really dig in and research ("Paging Dr. Brand, Dr. Brand...") Best Regards,
Before 1902 there was a line change in the vicinity of T-128, which is just north of Cape. I believe that this was the line change that "destroyed" Cape Rock. (Need to dug up my history books. http://semo777.serversanddomains.com/ws1/caperock/caperock.htm) Looks like it could be a difference of about 0.2 mi. On a personal note, several landowners, which are shown on the map are kin. Fred Brand was my Great Grandafther. Louis Fritz was the father of my Great Grandmother, Barabra, who married Fred Brand.
Karl, you propose an interesting possibility but what is illustrated did not affect Cape Rock. Cape Rock (the southeast bulge in the track) was severely cut back when the original line was built. The section that you are referring to is just north of Cape Rock. That area is between the river and the Cape Country Club golf course where the Freeze siding is located and runs to the north of what used to be Twin Trees Park. On the two aerials from Bing and Google, I believe you can see part of the old right-of-way etched into the landscape at the upper end: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=Cape%20Girardeau%2C%20MO&encType=1 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...7.334542,-89.494457&spn=0.027093,0.04034&z=14 The indicated change in right-of-way would create an increase in distance and that would affect everything south of that point, but as your references note, the change occurred in 1902, and the ETTs that I was referring to are all post 1920.
Yes indeed Keith...faulty memory. I've been away from SEMO far too long. Here's a 1908 tariff book, which lists the station numbers and mileage.
Now I see where the 144 came from; Chaffee was station number 144. In that 1908 Tariff Book, Chafee is listed as MP 143.6 with the begin point listed as St Louis, Tower Grove as MP 3.3 and Southeast Junction as MP 7.3. Looking back at the ETTs that I referenced, they all peg Tower Grove as MP 3.3 and Southeast Junction at MP 7.3 as well. I would think that ETTs were a more reliable reference that PTTs.
