Larry Shankles e-mailed this photo and asks for help in identifying where the photo was taken. Please advise if you can help.
Manny, I don't know about the New York Central but the streamlining work on the side of the engine looks very Frisco. Charlie
Sure looks Friscoish with what appears to be a lower-than-center headlight, and with spots carved out of the cowling for the bell and class lights. At any rate, I'm stumped on location, but it's interesting that there appear to be telegraph poles on the engineer side with only one crossbar, and poles on the fireman's side with quite a few crossbars. Best Regards,
The digital photo is not the best resolution. In the original, it appears to me that the track the Firefly is on, is in much better condition than the other two tracks, thus to me it is one thru track and two sidings to the right. Richard Napper also thought it was on a two track main, guessing it was somewhere in NE Johnson County, namely around Lenexa. In this case the lighting and the departure time for the Firefly would mean it is going South. The terrain just does not look like that area to me. There is a hill rising from the right track, if we are looking North, there should be Turkey Creek on the right, not a hill. Also there are some indestinct "monumental" structures on that hill which gives me the impression of a cemetery.
What if it's afternoon light and northbound (#118), later in the day, like somewhere around Fort Scott?? Just a guess... Tom G.
Richard is correct, I think that this is on the double track between KC and Paola. There were between-the two-main-track passing tracks at Merriam, Moss, Eads, and Hillsdale. The tracks were on curves through Merriam and Eads; the tracks were tangent at Moss and Hillsdale. The Frisco pole line was on the east side of the ROW.
I am probably least qualified to comment, however, that train is moving at a pretty fast gate. The wind is blowing at a good clip also from the left to right of the photo ... Hense the loco smoke is laying sharply to the right and down mixing with the dust which obscures the clarity of the side of the train. My belief is that the location is a place where there is two main lines with a shared passing siding between. Where might such a track arrangement be found on the Frisco?
Richard Napper, the Frisco historian, and Karl Brand have my vote. That is definitely double-track main with center siding; the outer tracks sit higher in the ballast. The area of Hillsdale fits the terrain in the picture with the Firefly headed south in the afternoon (note the shadow on the train's left).
Thanks for all of the replies, I appreciate it. Kudos to Charlie Dix in going the extra mile last night, trying to figure out why I could not post a photo.
Interesting photo. Looks like you already have it figured out, but I did want to point one thing out for the future. To my knowledge the firefly only ran from KC to Tulsa, so the Kansas City, Afton and which ever sub it is that goes from Afton to Tulsa (Tulsa sub?) would be the only ones that you would see these on. Ethan
I think the section from Afton to Tulsa was the Cherokee Sub? At least that's what I've seen in some of the late 1920s-era locomotivel fuel performance records. I also believe that there's photographic evidence of one of the "Firefly" locomotives wandering off of it's normal path. Somewhere at home, I have a scanned photo of one in Chaffee, MO on the River Division. If I recall correctly, it was provided one of the Eastwood brothers, who were engineers on the Frisco (Tim Cannon - not sure if you've seen this photo? I think I may have seen it thanks to Jerry Stroup). Best Regards,
Trains 117 & 118, The Firefly, operated between KC and OKC. During a brief period between 1946 and 1947, the name was changed to The Texas Flash, and trains 117 & 118 operated between KC and Dallas. The last run to Dallas was made May 1, 1947, and thereafter, it was back operating between KC and OKC. On April 30, 1950, the route was cut back to KC to Tulsa and dieselized. Chris is correct about the streamlined locomotives wandering about the system, but The Firefly train set was very distinctive and easy to ID, even when swollen beyond its standard 3-car set. Chris, I remember going to school with Randy Stroup; how is he related to Jerry?
No expert, but I was told that there are photos of the Firefly locos at lots of various locations, and the reason was that the locos were finished before the train sets and they were run where ever they were needed until the train sets were ready.
If it's the southbound Firefly between KC and Ft.Scott is can't be afternoon because 117 left KC at 8:30 am and arrived in Ft. Scott at 10:35am. I never heard of the Firefly going to Texas; could theTexas portion have been the Black Gold? My 1945 Timetable says that 117 and 118 did go to and from OKC. 111 and 112 apparently did operate only between KC and Tulsa.
The Firefly did get a new name, and a new destination during 1946. If you have a copy of Colias's Frisco Power, see page 138 for the Frisco advertisement for the new train service. It left KC at 10:00 AM and arrived in Dallas at 10:35PM; The Northbound train left Dallas at 7:40 AM, and it arrived in KC at 8:00 PM. Several pages from the SW Division ETT #35 are attached. The last run of The Texas Flash was May 1, 1947. On May second, the Firefly returned.
