Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau Southwestern

Discussion in 'Divisions' started by klrwhizkid, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Attached are three format versions of my layout plan. You might notice an opening in the wall to the crew lounge. I am considering moving the north staging to a sort of display case behind the couch. This case would have nice face frame cabinetry with glass to see the trains. Special thanks to Mark Davidson (mark) for helping lay the modeling concept into the space available.

    The plan is drawn using Microsoft Visio.

    I like Visio because it draws in scale like Autocad, but is easier to learn and I can print to a wide format printer 42" wide!
    Frisco River Div - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern Final v3.png
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  2. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern


    Wow, looks great. I have a couple of questions about the plan. I am a big operations fan, so that makes me ask: assuming you will have passenger trains, how will you turn them in St Louis and other places on the layout. I don't know the period you are going to operate, but it you may want to consider turnarounds in staging. Also, in Downtown Cape, I see several facing and trailing point switches. How do you plan to switch them? I don't see a nearby run around. The same goes for West Center Cape G. Finally, where will your engine service facilties be located in the Cape Frisco yard?

    Your layout has train loads of switching and fun. I love all the spurs. I look forward to your future additions.

    Best regards,
  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    Mike, Regarding your questions:

    1) Two Periods for Operating Sessions; 1950 & 1973 (as of 2018, this will now start in 1950 and move through the years up to November 21, 1980 3:10 pm CST)
    2) Turn arounds in staging: I will do the turn - around between sessions
    3) Facing point switches in downtown Cape for northbound local: That is prototypical, the local had to deal with the facing/trailing sidings separately from the yard at the south - total run distance about 2 miles .
    4) MoP facing point switches in west area of Cape: prototypical, all were this way, that's the reason they had a wye between the yard and the spur, the loco would push the cars ahead of it.
    5) Engine facilities: did not exist at Cape after 1930 other than fuel and sand on siding in yard closest to river. Engine facilities were moved to Chaffee between 1923 and 1931.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2009
  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    Keith -
    Finally downloaded the viewer and took a gander at the track plan. I like what I see! Props to you and Mark for coming up with a good design.

    I'd always thought that Cape had plenty of industry to keep a crew or two busy in the era you're modeling. We can chat offline more if you are still lacking industry schematics (I remember making some notes off of some maps at Kent Library while in college) or pictures and I can see what I dig up.

    One question: is "Federal Materials" what used to be Hely (or Healy) Crushed Stone? I know it was just north of Marquette Cement.
  5. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    Thanks, Chris.
    According to the Cape Girardeau Historic Preservation Plan filed in June of 1999, the Edward Hely Crushed Stone Company opened its quarry of south Sprigg Street in 1896. The business was taken over by his son, Norman.

    According to the Federal Materials company web site, Norman L. Hely purchased Federal Materials in Paducah in 1931, and apparently renamed his crushed stone business in Cape at that time, just before the 1931 Sanborn map was made. Hely found concrete success when the Paducah, Ky floodwall was built in 1940.

    FMC may have also provided some or all of the concrete for the Cape floodwall. I remember that there was a concrete mixing plant on the eastern edge of their property in Cape, but don't remember seeing any activity there in the late 60's or in the 70's. Later, Lone Star Cement apparently purchased the FMC property to increase the size of their quarry.

    I was able to get more contemporary information from the 1931 (with 1950 updates) Sanborn maps from the Mid-Continent Public Library online site.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2011
  6. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    Well, tonight I ordered what should be almost all of the track, switches, and switch stands I will need (other than maybe 3-5 curved switches).

    I am presently working on more research into industries that would supply or buy from the ones that will be on my layout. The unfortunately the OpsSIG database doesn't cover any industries that were in Cape Girardeau, so I will have to provide what data I collect/develop to the OpsSIG group to flesh out some more of the River Division.

    I have not yet made much progress into readying my space - I have been on the road too much with work. Maybe closer to the holidays (Nov - Dec).
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2010
  7. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    Keith -
    Some interesting information from the Southeast Missourian "Out of the Past" column this morning. It's a little before your operating era, but has some reasonably firm numbers for one of your modeled industries:

    75 years ago: Sept. 21, 1935

    More than 200 men are employed by the M.E. Leming Lumber Co. mills in south Cape Girardeau, as it manufactures and delivers between 450,000 and 500,000 board feet of lumber per week to supply the federal government and contractors with lumber for construction work along the Mississippi River and its tributaries.

    I don't know how offhand how many board feet of lumber can fit in a 40' XM-class boxcar, but I'm sure someone in the OpSIG has determined this. From there, I suspect it's pretty easy to calculate how many MTYs in/loads out you would need.

    How's the layout coming along?
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    According to my research, the largest percentage (about 60%) of lumber out of M.E. Leming went out on barges! In two of the pictures I have of the industry, one can see the sluices that were used to move lumber from the mill and yard down to the river bank to men stacking the lumber on barges. The remaining percentage went out on Houck's railways and ultimately the Frisco.
    In one of the pictures you can see rafts of logs in the river, against the shore. This was the way raw timber arrived - there were no log cars hauling timber in. My father's friend has a son-in-law whose father has been in the lumber business for 70+ years and in the very early days he and his father and men working for them floated rafts of logs from up-river down to Cape Girardeau & Leming. He said they would attach a small outboard motor to the rear of the raft for some semblance of directional control. Eventually they made enough money supplying Leming that they started their own sawmill up in Perry County (still operational to this day) and stopped supplying Leming (he claims the lack of cheap timber from them is what killed Leming's operation).

    Layout construction?
    The clearing of real estate begins (the dumpster arrives) in-earnest on October 18, 2010.

    The past nine months have seen a significant investment in motive power, rolling stock, decoders, throttles and structure kits (mostly for kitbashing), besides there was no way I was going to begin lugging my 26 year accumulation of stuff unrelated to railroading (historical or modeling) out to a dumpster in the summer heat and humidity.

    Additionally, significant amounts of my available time have been put into assisting two other local modelers; expanding Rick McClellan's layout and helping get a layout built and operational for Mike McLain[a Katy modeler].

    The Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern Railway construction may begin by late June - after basic infrastructure work is done; some plumbing rework, electrical work including lighting, and some wall surface installation. Hopefully, my time invested elsewhere has bought labor credits to assist in construction of my layout - most of the guys here in KC are chomping at the bit to do more building! We have a great historical/modeling base of people here in KC.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2011
  9. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    Thanks for the update, Keith. Sounds like you'll be cleaning about the same time that I'll be moving in and taking measurements of the new layout space. I need to find a time for the family and I to day trip to KC so that I can come out and play.

    Best Regards,
  10. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    Terry, I know for a fact that local crews in Southeast Mo were dropping (and kicking) cars into the middle 80's. One of the R/C airplane modelers I knew in Cape was a Frisco/BN engineer and he offtimes would talk about the workweek and the setouts/pickups they did since he knew I was a "train guy" also.

    The River Division generally doesn't include grades other than the difference between main and siding so in the interest of getting things done quicker, drops and kicks were used a lot.

    Note: for those who might visit this site and aren't familiar with the terminology;
    A drop is when the locomotive accelerates with car(s) in tow, momentarily slows down so the pin can be pulled on the couplers between the locomotive and car(s), and the locomotive accelerates again opening the gap between the locomotive and car(s) so that the switch (turnout) can be thrown to the siding after the locomotive passes and the car(s) will enter the siding with momentum. A brakeman rides the car(s) and slows them with the car brakes (hopefully) to the position they need to be.

    A kick involves the locomotive accelerating, shoving the car(s) toward an already thrown switch (turnout). Once again a brakemen rides the car(s), using the car brakes to control the stop of the car(s). In this case, the locomotive does not enter the siding but stops short of the switch so another trainman can throw the switch, setting the locomotive up for some other move.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2010
  11. bootheel

    bootheel Member

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    On the Caruthersville Branch the Frisco and Cottonbelt used the "drop" very effectively. They made it look easy. There was just enough of a grade to make the cars just glide in the sidings. I was always amazed at watching the crews do a drop with 10-15 cars.
  12. MFreix

    MFreix Member

    Re: Frisco River Division - Cape Girardeau & Southwestern

    I recently purchased the Pentrex Arkansas & Missouri DVD, and they had a segment focusing on the Bentonville branch. The job was handled by an S-2 and did a bit of kicking and dropping - it was quite interesting.

    A very interesting DVD in it's entirety!
  13. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    The dumpster is here! Right of Way is being cleared. No more waiting! Rick McClellan and Mike McLain (MKT modeler) are coming by to help on 10/19.

    I am beginning to see bare walls and I am happy to say that the light at the end of the tunnel IS A TRAIN!
  14. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Progress is moving somewhat slowly due to management imposing unrelated projects into the work schedule. I have updated the plans and they are posted in the post at the beginning of this thread.
  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Progress! I have moved my woodworking bench to a temporary position (before disposal) to enable the removal of some mistakenly used 5/8" sheet rock from previous workshop building work and to allow me to build up some special studs that will allow the layout to be truly cantilevered along three walls.

    I started building studs last night late and completed two. The pictures supplied show some of the layout space (lots of stuff to work around) and show the lay-up of a stud with a completed one in the background and how the completed studs with cantilevers will support the benchwork. The studs are being built up from 2 3/8" x 3/4'' 10 ply baltic birch plywood (salvage material). Pieces are cut to several lengths to ensure no over-lapping joints. The pieces are then glued and crown stapled with a pocket for a lateral in the middle layer. It is glued and crown stapled into the pocket. The topside of the lateral will be at 46 7/8" off the floor to give a 50" layout height. The studs will be on 16" centers.

    Two studs are shown in a temporary position for illustration purposes - a total of 35 will be needed. They will be placed ungainst the unfinished concrete walls seen in the first two pictures. The whole purpose for the cantilevered studs is to eliminate knee braces which will allow for a couple of rolling workbenches and some other rolling storage to fit tight against the wall under the layout.

    BTW, each lateral cantilever will support close to 200 pounds with only 1/4" deflection!

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2012
    rjthomas909 likes this.
  16. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Wow, Keith! You got it goin' on. Looks as if you're doing things right the first time for sure. Naturally the Cape Girardeau and Southwestern caught my attention:). Nice basement as well. Don't forget that you have some trees waiting for you at my house (although it appears that scenery might be a while).
  17. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Keith, thanks for the update. I'm naturally partial to the locale you're modeling; consequently, I really look forward to seeing trains in operation!

    Are you using a spline-type construction for your roadbed? I think that's what I'm seeing in the drawing and in some of the photos.

    There's a lot to be said for sturdy benchwork. I was trying to retrieve a dropped Mag-Lite from under the layout the other evening, and before I'd realized what I'd done, I'd done a "pull-up" on the benchwork of Olathe, KS above me. Not a bit of budging that I saw or noticed. That's saying something, too...3 years ago, it wouldn't have been that much to expect the layout to support my weight, but it seems I've started to expand like a red giant star late in the life cycle. :)

    Best Regards,
  18. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Chris, as you know, the topography of the Cape Girardeau area along the railroad is pretty much billiard-table flat, so sheet plywood will serve as most of the table top. In a few places there may be some variation, but I may accomplish that with splines oriented horizontally - something that I have not seen done yet. The actual lay of the track (vertically) is something that I will deal with once I have the basic support structure in place. Realistically, there are only two significant rises in roadbed in the Cape area; one under the Mississippi River bridge and the other from William Street to Indepence Street on the old CGN/MoP trackage. I don't really think they contribute that much to operations and in the compressed distance on a layout, they present a problem; vertical curve.

    I am also thinking about revising the track plan south of Cape LaCroix Creek, shifting Marquette Cement a little farther south, elongating it, and adding a somewhat narrow working aisle between the wall and the length (west side) of the plant in addition to the aisle on the river side. The Marquette operation is a big part of the layout and I am also trying to figure out how to get a semblance of the river dock operations included.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2012
  19. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Supporter

    Story of my life.......... :/
  20. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Indeed, when looking at it from that standpoint, I think I'd forget about including any grade, especially if it would impact the operations. Honestly, I'd never looked that carefully at the track chart, and have never have found any grade to be perceptible to my eye when looking at the prototype.

    Now, this has me potentially jazzed. Especially with all of the photos that your father took in 1961...

    I think that the Marquette complex could nearly stand on its own as a switching layout. How will this impact your plans for staging? It looks like it, too, would have to shift "south" or over to the right where you've indicated the "Possible Future Location Chaffee & MoP/Scott City Staging"?

    Fun stuff for a River Division fan on a Friday!

    Best Regards,

Share This Page