Andre, I posted a photo of a boxcar similar to the one that Jim found. My photo depicts workers loading ties at Salem (see Salem Branch) into the boxcar. Sorry, I don't have an exact date for it, but it appears to be circa 1900. My guess would be that the large block lettering was probably most common from 1890 to 1910, give or take a few years. Pat Moreland, Union Mo.
Hi Pat: Yup, we're having trouble narrowing down the earliest date of the block style "FRISCO" lettering. At the Art Griffin website that John linked to in a previous reply, I have found gondola lettering in the block style dated 1900. I may have missed one or two Frisco lettering sets because at the time I was in a bit of a hurry. Perhaps I will return soon and study the sets in more detail. Brian: My "layout" I referenced is "V scale", or "Virtual Scale". That is, routes I build on my computer for Microsoft's Train Simulator, or "MSTS" for short. Using MSTS as a modeling medium, you get mile-for-mile with authentic landforms (by using the aforementioned "Digital Elevation Models"). Thus, one can emulate or recreate just about any prototype railroad out there, as well as create what "was to be" or "should have been" and see what it would have looked like, as is the case with my current "Ozark Lines" V scale project. To illustrate, below you'll find an attached picture of St. Paul, which as we all know, was on the Frisco's St. Paul Branch. I modeled it as it was in 1893. Though I used a bit of "modeler's license", I didn't use much. My version resembles photos of St. Paul during the 1890's - 1900's. When I run a V scale train within the simulation and pass through St. Paul, it indeed looks, sounds, and gives the feel of what it was like back in St. Paul's "boom times". Lots of fun.
I'm still trying to put the freight car markings into some sort of rough chronological order. Here's what I think I believe so far (jump in and correct me on this when necessary): The first photo is a closeup from a postcard that has been posted before. My particular card is postdated 1909 but I think the paint schemes shown are all much older. If the card had actually been photographed in 1909 there would probably have been at least one FRISCO lettered car shown. (1) The two Frisco Line box cars on the third track (curved logo) may represent a very early scheme which predates the coonskin type logos. Notice that only the first letter in each word is capitalized. Photos taken at Van Buren, AR in 1885 show cars with much the same markings. A Bourbon County, KS photo (1887) on page 143 in Rails Rivalry and Romance shows a coal car with the same logo. (2) The coal car at the extreme right on the 2nd track is virtually identical to the unidentified car at Huntington, AR (early 1890's) posted earlier. Apparently some of the early coal cars had no markings on the wood. For now I am calling this the earliest known coal car paint scheme although here the actual lettering may not have been original. (It is my understanding that this type of car was always called a coal car because that is practically all that could be loaded in them. Any other type of fine material would have been difficult to completely remove from the car and would have contaminated the coal.) (3) FRISCO LINE (inside coonskin) seems to be the last scheme in use prior to the introduction of the large block FRISCO, perhaps in ca. 1902. The second photo is cropped from the OKC cotton compress post card. (1) FRISCO SYSTEM (left car) seems to be a logo/paint scheme which was adopted ca. 1902. (2) The FRISCO LINE cars may represent variations of the scheme that was used just prior to that date. John
Isn't it uncanny how often important elements are not visible in historic photos? Take for instance that postcard (by the way, I agree the schemes on the cars appear to predate the 1909 postdate): Notice how not ONE coupler is shown? If we could see whether link 'n pins were in place or knuckles, that would help. If link n' pin, it dependably places the photo prior to 1899-1900, which was the "drop dead date" for that appliance. (Ending the extension granted a few years previous.) Andre
Thank, Andre for telling me the your layout is a v-scale (computer done/made). I wasn't sure what this was until you told me what it was. Well I hope you can show pictures of it sometime, if you can do that?? Thanks for tell me that your layout is an v-scale. I work with HO scale model myself. I am modeling The ES&NA RR, as much as I can. I work on it every now and then. If you want me to tell you more about my layout, please tell me, and I will happy to tell you more. Brian Waller
Brian commented: I already did. It was the attached image file (click on it) in my previous reply post to your question about "V scale". Andre
Thank Andre, I have already seen it. It look good. Are you having fun working on it?? Do you want to know more about my HO layout?? I modeling The ES&NA RR. Brian Waller
Hi Again Brian: I enjoy working in V scale in moderation. I'm sure you're enjoying your HO layout as well. If you'll note, my previous comments all had Frisco content. Even my supporting photo was concerning a Frisco railroad location. If we start to discuss your HO layout, we will take this current Frisco thread and turn it into an off-topic conversation. Thus, I decline your offer. However, keep having fun with your HO layout and pursuing your passion. Andre
