"FRISCO" Block Lettering?

Discussion in 'General' started by Coonskin, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Hi All:

    I'm trying to narrow down when the large sans-serif block lettering began to appear on equipment. I have a few photos that show it in evidence in the 1900's... does it appear earlier?

    Thanks.

    Andre Ming
     
  2. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    You mean like these? I'm not positive but I have a poor quality photo of a FRISCO box car with truss rods and old Arch Bar trucks which appears to me to be late 1880s or 1890s. My saw tooth boxcars are 1912 builds and my gondolas are 1909 builds.
     

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  3. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Yes Jim, that's the style of lettering (and variations thereof) that I'm trying to ascertain the earliest date. I am piddlin' with an 1893 project that will connect with the SLSF, so their cars would be seen. Would like to use that style if it goes back that far. I suspect it doesn't.

    Andre
     
  4. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Andre, is would this happen to be a KSFS&M project? :confused:
     
  5. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Nay, not the KCFS&M. The SLSF connection would be on the Central Sub at Seligman. :)

    It is a V scale project.
     
  6. Ozarktraveler

    Ozarktraveler Member

    Intriguing... Can't wait.
     
  7. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Andre, I have a picture of a Cape Girardeau Northern Derailment that was taken just after the railroad's name had changed from the Cape Girardeau & Chester. The picture was taken about 1902. In the picture is a FRISCO outside braced gondola with the block letters, so I believe your time frame is completely reasonable.
     
  8. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    klr:

    1902 is 9 years after my target date of 1893. However, your photo IS the earliest photo evidence of the block lettering I can recall hearing about.

    Ozark Traveler:

    The primary theme for this project is protolanced. However, not without prototype basis. North to south, the routing is as follows:

    * 18 miles will be built on the Eureka Springs Rwy right of way. (The portion between Seligman and Eureka Springs.)

    * Approximately the next approx. 40 miles uses a survey by a railroad that was PROPOSED to be extended from NW Arkansas to Huntsville, with a branch to Eureka Springs. The line was to go south out of Huntsville and veer southeast at Aurora and off to Memphis. I am using the Eureka Springs to Aurora portion of this proposed route.

    * Frisco's St. Paul Branch, of which the SLSF will run over this portion.

    * Protolanced from SLSF's town of Brashears south to Ozark Arkansas, but touching base with the prototype Black Mountain & Eastern at Cass, Arkansas.

    Seeing as this is V scale it is mile-for-mile through Digital Elevation Models of the actual terrain. To say this is spectacular is an understatement and laying rails through here adhering to prototype practices illustrates to me just what a huge undertaking it was to dare to shoot a railroad through the Ozarks! My hat is off to the survey party that laid out the Frisco's Central Sub through the Ozarks!

    Andre
     
  9. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    I hope it doesn't break any laws but here is an image I found doing a Google search on " Frisco images". It's on page 3 of the images. Looking at the truss rod construction and arch bar trucks makes me think this car may be 1880s or 1890s maybe. It could have been repainted though. The clothing worn by the folks in the photo may tell somebody what year this was taken.
     

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  10. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Alas... appears to be a knuckle coupler. That would place it at the earliest about 1899-1900.

    Gettin' closer to 1893, though... ain't we?
     
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The ampersand places it in the Yoakum era....1896-1916
     
  12. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The car was a part of the 13345-13819 class of box cars, which were built in 1902. It's 36' feet long, it weighed 34,400lbs, and it had a cap'y of 30 tons
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2010
  13. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Well that settles that doesn't it. Great research skills Karl!
     
  14. john

    john FRISCO.org Supporter

    This is a great question. I went back through the (few) photos I have from prior to 1900. I could not locate even one car with the large block FRISCO lettering which was so common in the 1900's. Some coal cars did carry a curved Frisco Lines logo. I looked up the 1902 freight car paint diagrams (I know they are posted online and I think there is a link somewhere on this site - but I can't find it at the moment). The red coal car paint diagram shows the old paint scheme (faintly) under the 1902 scheme. To my eye it does not appear the block letters were present on the older scheme. In the books that I have, most car and locomotive photos from prior to 1900 carry the lettering SAINT LOUIS & SAN FRANCISCO or ST L & SF (or no markings at all). The earliest FRISCO I found was the Alco builders photo of #577 from 1902. The earlier box car paint schemes were well illustrated here on Frisco.org a while back in the posts about the cotton compress at Oklahoma City. Does anyone know of a photo from prior to 1902 which shows FRISCO lettering?

    I don't think I've posted this photo here. Can anyone positively identify the ownership of the car? This photo was taken at Huntington on the Mansfield Branch of the Frisco in about 1893. Although most of the traffic from Huntington was Frisco locomotive fuel, this car is loaded with an early form of what we think of as (cooking) charcoal so this might not be a Frisco car.

    John
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Pretty dapper looking brakemen back in those days!

    Ken
     
  16. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Sharp eyes might notice that the great big F-R-I-S-C-O (as on those early gondola cars) is the same font as in the later Frisco "coonskin" herald (Squeezed together a little) and the "Frisco" under the steam engine cab windows (Spread out a little).

    Tom
     
  17. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Thanks for all the input. I've suspected for a long time the FRISCO block style came into use around 1900.

    John: That is an incredibly rare photo! Wonderful stuff! Thank you so much for sharing it. It is duly saved in my "Coal Belt" folder under "Frisco"!
     
  18. John Sanders

    John Sanders Member

    http://www.greatdecals.com/Griffin.htm

    Andre,

    Take a look at Art Griffin's web site for early Frisco lettering. Most, or all of his decal sets are based on photos which he also offers for sale. The large "FRISCO" lettering seems to appear about 1905. Before that cars had a variety of "Frisco System", or "Frisco Line" arranged within the coonskin outline. Westerfield has a CD with ACF builder photos available, but they may not show cars from the 1890s.

    John Sanders
    Springfield MO
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2010
  19. john

    john FRISCO.org Supporter

    Andre,

    Here's another photo from the 1897 article about making coal briquettes. In this case the compressed coal was called eggettes. The Kansas and Texas Coal Company's plant at Huntington, AR (shown again here) was built in 1892. This was an attempt to get some value from the massive amounts of coal dust (slack) produced in these mines. The attempt failed because of excessive "binder" costs. The plant ran only a couple of years, was shut for several years and then reopened only to fail again for virtually the same reasons.

    The earlier photo (above) was taken looking roughly southeast toward Huntington (which was built on the hill to the left). It shows what appears to be a depot in the distance on the left side of the tracks. At this time, in addition to strip mines, there were at least 5 underground mines in the immediate area, most or all serviced with 3 track tipples and a maze of railroad tracks. By 1902, the oldest complete plat of the town which I have seen, the location of the depot and track arrangements here were completely different.
     

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  20. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Hi Again John!

    Another superb and very historical photograph. Many thanks.

    Yes, I recognized the location of the first Huntington photo almost immediately. When I first moved to the Mansfield area in 1969, the sweeping curve w/siding was still in place, and there was a small loading tipple/facility that would be on around the distant curve... past where the possible depot is located in your picture. Upon its discovery, I really liked the rail setting at Huntington... and always figured it was REALLY interesting "back when".

    Now, thanks to your efforts and willingness to share them, I can really "see" what it was like!

    Andre
     

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