F9s in Pool Service

Discussion in 'General' started by gstout, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Just spent part of the day at Avard where the Frisco used to hand off run-through trains to the Santa Fe. My question is, how far beyond Avard did the Frisco regularly operate, realizing that on the UP run-throughs, Frisco power regularly ran all the way to North Platte (and sometimes all the way to California)?

    Thanx!

    GS
     
  2. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    There is a photo I have seen published more than once of Frisco F units at cajon pass sometime in the 1950s. Remember also that the handoff point was originally at Floydada,TX, the western end of the QA&P, so those F units came to the Santa Fe by way of the QA&P.

    On the other end of the transcontinental pools, I have eeen many photos of Frisco power at Hamlet, NC on the SCL.

    Paul
     
  3. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul,
    First of all. Thank you for recognizing and confirming the QA&P was a part of the Frisco. Some folks think that when the Frisco abolished the QA&P it was a better Frisco RR. We, the Frisco/QA&P gave up route miles which benefited no one on the SL-SF or QA&P, but wholly, benefited the AT&SF demands for more route mile tonnage revenue. Basically no one on the AT&SF wanted to see a profitable QA&P. But the basic trackage between Floydada and the west coast remains intact. Just the QA&P is gone. I understand the short-sighted views of RR management. We will as a people in the US, reap these benefits of these short-sighted visions, for generations to come.
    The Milwaukee Road is a great comparison (although obviously much bigger), but we should have never given any infrastructure in the form of a rail network up.
    Just My opinion. But as of my last trip down to the QA&P. It still would have been quicker to take the QA&P "The Flash" to Floydada than the current routing.

    I wish some people, would spend a little time remembering some of the little RR's that made the SL-SF an un-apologetic intrastate contender.
     
  4. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    One of my great railroad memories was during the time the Frisco and Santa Fe were running a pool service (about 1967??). I was waiting for the red crossing signal near Broadway and Commercial in Springfield. Soon a perfectly matched six unit Santa Fe F-7 A-B-B-B-B-A set came rolling by toward the west yards. Each unit was freshly washed (maybe waxed too??) And the lead engine had the most melodious diesel air horns I believe I ever heard. Forgive me if you've heard this before I think I once posted a version of this vignette in the dim and distant past.

    Tom G.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    Joe Lovett and Ozarktraveler like this.
  5. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Interesting, thanks, but where was the "usual" point where motive power was exchanged?

    GS
     
  6. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Just a bit about the ATSF-Frisco run-through service might be found in this thread. It would seem that the Frisco units were working all the way through to California. The real question might be how far east did the ATSF units work on the Frisco. I have a copy of the Trains Magazine photo spread described in this thread.
    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/slsf-gp-20s.1807/#post-10762

    U-Boats over Cajon
    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/slsf-800-831-u25b-dispositions.526/#post-3661


    Early Frisco-ATSF Passenger "run-through" service
    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/joint-atsf-sl-sf-ptt-nov-1911.4954/#post-35575

    Early Frisco-ATSF "run-through" freight service
    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/st-louis-and-san-fransisco.3706/#post-24821
     
  7. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The often seen photo of F9A SLSF 5007 leading an all Frisco F9 ABBA set was a Chard Walker photo taken near Summit on Cajon Pass, 2/21/1962. Chard used the shot in his book Chard Walker's Cajon. The train is CTX. Barstow was likely the western end of the Frisco run-through power with the ASTF.
    The pic is on page 176.
    K
     
  8. tferk

    tferk Member Frisco.org Supporter

    To answer Greg's original question, I believe the "official" Western exchange point was Clovis. Obviously, various folks took photos of the exceptions when power was grabbed to run further west. The ATSF-MP "Whirlwind" runthrough via Sweetwater, TX, worked the same way, with MP power turned at Clovis.
     
  9. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Okay, thanks to all who helped out. NOW, here's another brain-teaser: When the Baltimore & Ohio was sending B&O sleepers to Texas in the consist of the TXSP, does anyone know specifically which cars (NOT car types) were assigned to that Pullman line? I am helping Larry Thomas of the TRRAH&TS with a project he has taken on.

    GS
     
  10. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Seems like Paw Paw was one that found its way on the Texas Special. I can't tell you what the configuration of that car is though. All that info would be found in the TRRA Texas Special book-a-zine. Sorry I can't locate my copy at the moment.

    Tom G.

    PS: Found my TS book. Some other cars were:Cacapon, Mahoning, Monocacy, Sangamon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  11. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    When I saw your question, I thought the same thing Tom Did, and consulted the TRRA books on the Texas Special and the Meteor.

    The Texas Special book specifically mentions (and has photographs of) B&O sleepers "Mahoning" and "Cacapon", and indicates they were assigned to Pullman Line 4087. (This on page 70 and 71). One of the photos shows "Cacapon" being washed at San Antonio. There is also a photo of Katy sleeper "Benjamin R. Milam" in the National Limited at Washington D.C.

    Page 62 of the Meteor book has a photo of heavyweight "Lantern Tower" which was assigned to the Meteor. There's also a photo of "Capacon" here, but it doesn't show the assigned cars. Page 158 of the same book lists the two pullman lines involved. The heavyweight line was 4080 and had "Lantern Tower", "Hill Tower", "Gothic Tower", "Norman Tower", and "Magdalen Tower". as the regularly assigned cars (this would be between 1946 and 1948). Line 4086 was the lightweight line, but all it says about car assignments is that it was a 4 car pool.

    Page 57 of Steve Gohen's "Miss Katy in the Lone Star State" has a photo of the Texas Special going through the Washrack of at San Antonio. This shows part of a B&O lightweight car with a name ending in"OCACY".
    I found a thread on the Classic Trains magazine forum: http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3/t/54069.aspx that lists the names of the B&O lightweight sleepers. The only name for a 14-4 matching the one in the book is "MONOCACY", so that is likely the car. I do not know if that list is exhaustive.

    All the other photos I've seen that might give us a clue are distant shots, and you can't read car names.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  12. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Greg -
    I can't remember for certain, but the book Night Trains: The Pullman System in the Golden Years of American Rail Travel by Peter Maiken has scads of information in the back, and I *think* it might include some specific car numbers/names? If you don't have access to a copy, let me know and I'll find mine in the workshop library at home and see if it'll be any help.

    Best Regards,
     
  13. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Don't have that book, so if it's not a lot of trouble, maybe you could take a quick look?

    Thanx!

    GS
     
  14. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    The five cars I mentioned above are the only ones named in the TRRA Texas Special book.

    Tom G.
     
  15. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom,

    Which page is that on. I seemed to have missed it in my review.

    Paul
     
  16. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Hi Paul--Pages 137 and 143 (in the TRRA Texas Special book) have B&O car info.

    Tom G.
     
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  17. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I've been told, some time ago by Ken McElreath, I believe, that Cacapon is likely the B&O blue & gray Pullman (seventh car back from the two E's) in the pic of SLSF 2008 pulling the Texas Special out of Dallas in Marre/Sommers "Frisco in Color" (Vol 1), page 40.
    K
     
  18. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Tom!
     

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