Chaffee(Rockview) to Delta Trackage Rights

Discussion in 'General' started by Karl, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    While examing the system map(C&EI, CRI&P, and SL&SF) from a 1909 Annual Report, I noticed that a Frisco route was shown between Chaffee and Delta, MO. Is this a map error, or did the Frisco/C&EI hold trackage rights on the SSW to Delta. Thoughts?

    Attached Files:

  2. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    There is nothing mentioned about a connection with the C&EI or SSW at Delta in A Missouri Railroad Pioneer; the Life of Louis Houck, but I that is the only reference to early SEMO railroading that I have read completely.

    Any other description of Frisco operations on the Hoxie sub line that I have read thus far haven't included any mention of what would have been a short-cut from Rock View to Delta, bypassing the junction at Nash.

    I don't know, Karl, maybe Ken McElreath, Tim Cannon or Chris Abernathy might have additional info.
  3. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Interesting information, Karl...I think the only timetable that I have from the Yoakum "Frisco System" era is a 1905 PTT. If I could locate it in the still-packed boxes, I'm not sure it would clarify matters any.

    Incidentally, I'm intrigued by what appears to be an IC(?) branch running from McClure to East Cape Girardeau, IL.

    Best Regards,

    SAFN SAAP Member

    Looking at your map, green lines usually indicated ROW for the actual railroad in question. Black lines usually indicated Trackage Rights on another railroad. Check the Index on the map and you can determine what was what. It wouldn't surprise me if the Frisco had TR at that time. Check the bankruptcy history of the Frisco. That will more than likely lead you to the deals made while in receivership.
  5. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Chris, Houck built the Cape Girardeau and Grand Tower Ry that went near Mclure on it's way to East Cape where it crossed the river by ferry. That may be what you see.
  6. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Thanks for clarifying, Jim. I'd never realized that Houck built on the east side of the River. I should have researched info on the old Houck Lines more carefully when I spent time scrounging Kent Library bewteen classes. :)

    How's your Cape Depot project coming along?

    Best Regards,
  7. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Kieth, they're building a new road from Blomeyer towards I-55 and it follows close by the old roadbed towards the Nash junction. Just FYI. There's now a big roundabout at Blomeyer as well. My how time changes things!
  8. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Chris, my modeling projects are on hold. I got married and moved to Wolf Lake, IL which is along the old Cape Girardeau & Grand Tower right of way as well as the UP mainline. I'll get back up and running soon. Thanks for asking.
  9. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Sorry, it was the Grand Tower and Cape Girardeau Railroad Co. It was 28.8 miles long had two sidings, used 60 lb rail and consolidated with the Grand Tower and Crbondale RR.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2010
  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Jim, thanks; I'll have to check the SE Missourian archives and see what I can find on the GT&CG. Congratulations on your marriage!

    Best Regards,
  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    This thread is another example of how there is most always someone that has not just the answer sought, but so much more!

    Thanks James, and Best Wishes.

    RE: the new road paralleling the old Hoxie Sub tracks from Nash to Blomeyer and the traffic circle; I was made aware of them by my new friend, Ken Steinhoff, on his blog:
  12. timothy_cannon

    timothy_cannon Member Supporter

    Chris, the line Jim mentions ended up in IC hands and was part of the "mud line" from Murphysboro to Thebes. There was a line from it at a point near McClure (sp?) to the OLD East Cape and then by ferry to Cape. Ken Mc has photos of the IC rail ferry at Cape. They might even be posted on here somewhere. The mud line was still intact as far south as Gorham in the early 1980's. Lots of roadbed left all the way to Thebes, even a few telegraph poles. South out of Grand Tower it mostly paralleled the MP to Thebes. I have photos of the IC depot at Gale just north of Thebes. Houck also built the Cairo and Thebes Jct. from Thebes to Cairo. I have pics of the Cairo terminus and it was huge. I'll post them if I can find them. This ended up in MP ownership and was intact until at least the late 1980's. I have pics somewhere of the Cape local working that line. On the Missouri side near Illmo the C & T jct. was a third line into Cape along with the Frisco Gulf Line and the MP line that was constructed in the early 1930's (and is still in use by the Semo Port Auth.). The Missouri side C&T jct. was built around 1910 and was not a very good road. It did not have a long life. The FRisco did not want it built as it had just bought the Gulf Line from Houck and did not want the competition. They even went as far as laying a few rails for sidings where Houck wanted to cross the Frisco and derailed some hoppers with ballast to block the way. i'll see if I can dig up the whole story.

    100 years ago: June 9, 1906

    It is reported that all the difficulties that had arisen with the construction of the Cape Girardeau and Thebes Bridge Terminal between Cape Girardeau and the Thebes, Ill., bridge have been resolved; it is further reported that by Aug. 1, trains will be operating between the Cape Girardeau & Chester (Houck) depot in Cape Girardeau and the Thebes bridge, making direct connection with all trains crossing the Mississippi River there.

    100 years ago: Aug. 27, 1908

    Work will begin tomorrow on the Thebes Bridge Terminal Railroad, beginning at a point near the Cotton Belt and will continue until the grading for the entire line to Cape Girardeau is finished; Louis Houck expects to have connections with the Cotton Belt tracks near the Thebes bridge by the first of November.

    75 years ago: March 22, 1929

    Construction work on building of new Missouri Pacific Railroad line from Thebes Bridge to Cape Girardeau is under way on section of line near Illmo; one of big projects to be undertaken in construction work will be building of bridge over Diversion Channel.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2010
  13. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Very cool info! Thank you. I now live right across the road from the old GT&CG RR bed and the UP mainline at Wolf Lake, IL. Lots of modern rail action in my front yard. Some of those old telegraph poles still stand near my home. I think my railroad diorama list is growing. Still gotta get some brick sheet from Walthers for the Cape Girardeau depot first. Dear Santa............

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