4-4-0 project: Mantua-Cary-Roundhouse

Discussion in '4-4-0 American' started by SAFN SAAP, Nov 23, 2010.


    SAFN SAAP Member

    Hi Y'all,

    After receiving my second Cary Pittsburgh 4-4-0 boiler complete with drive, I started to think....:eek:

    I contacted NWSL and spoke with the owner Dave and explained how I would like to get a drive inside the locomotive rather than in the tender. He said it may be possible and that I would need to send him the locomotive. So I'm shipping it off to him to see what can be done, if anything. I'm hopeful they can do it, so that I can have DCC and sound in the tender. I will be using Roundhouses Old Time Tender, 404 to match up with these locomotives. I'm hoping to model the 200-225 series locomotives.

    Also, I have been thinking about how to replicate the disc counterweights and may have come up with the solution. I will have to drill out a shallow cavity into the drivers and then place the correct size thin metal disc into the cavity. There should be no issue with the drivers since they are too small to require counterweight affects.

    I'll post up pictures as I go...



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  2. JamesP

    JamesP James Pekarek

    The counterweight idea sounds good, those "Mickey Mouse" are a distinctive feature of that class. I'm looking forward to seeing the result, Manny!

    - James

    SAFN SAAP Member

    Hey James,

    You're going to kill me. I've been overlooking the photographs of the 201-225 class on the board. It hit me like a lightning strike. The answer on how to do this is in the counterweights themselves! I won't divulge the answer, but you'll see how I do it! It's so dang easy you'll kick yourself for not seeing it! :D


    SAFN SAAP Member


    I have a guilty conscience. It isn't fair that I do this. We are all brothers on the Frisco and if my idea helps out someone to do a better model, then so be it. So here is the idea.

    Take a look at the first picture. Look at the counterweights. They are resting ON TOP of the spokes or the forging appears that way. See how they protrude out from the surface of the spokes. They are raised up a little.

    So the idea came to take a sheet of brass, thin enough to handle a punch, but strong enough to hold its shape. Get the appropriate size hole punch, punch the brass then CA the discs onto the spokes. You're done!

    The second picture shows the gap between the side rods and the wheel. Plenty of space for a thin piece of brass.

    Hole punches can be purchased from 1/16", 1/8", 1/4" and up. Just measure the distance between two opposite spokes with one in the middle and you will get your size (approximate).

    That's my idea. I'll try it as soon as I can. Someone might take the thunder, but it should work.


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  5. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Neat idea.

    One variation could be to use a piece of PVC, styrene or rubber sheet and poke a hole with a laboratory cork borer. A # 6, 7 or 8 ought to do it. The piece could be glued in place and painted.

    Though metal is preferable, it is harder to form and fasten. There would be some worry about securely fastening the plastic or rubber to the metal.

    SAFN SAAP Member

    That tool is exactly what I was thinking of but didn't know if it existed. That's why I thought of brass. With all the varying widths available, I'm sure one would work well. Styrene would work well to. I'm just curious how well it would allow paint to adhere. CA should hold the brass in place. If you want to attach the brass to metal drivers (white), then solder should work.

    Great idea to meet a great idea!


    SAFN SAAP Member

    Snagged a pilot off eBay early this morning. This closely matches the "209's" pilot. I will take off the old time pilot from the casting and will solder this in place. It will also allow me to utilize a long shank Kadee 146 up front for nose maneuvers.

    Also, looking at the front, I can see that it extends too far out so I'm going to have it cut down. This will match more realistically the extended pilot of the 209. There is no adequate way to "stretch" the frame of the Mantua General.

    I'm unsure what the best way is to deal with mating white metal to white metal. I'm not sure that CA is the best way. I thought about grooving and then filling in with solder. Does anyone have any tips on how to do this?



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  8. L&N Fan

    L&N Fan Member

    Manny, you asked about glues, try Walthers Goo. This stuff was the only glue that was durable enough to hold a Woodland Scenics Lumber Mill together on the Museum Layout in Bowling Green, KY. The glue is a contact cement and has some initial flexibility plus it has holding power. Use a small amount and pre-drill holes for small parts.

  9. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member


    Be very careful soldering white (soft) metal. It has a very low melting point. You can easily create puddles of metal where you're trying to solder.

    Good luck!

    Andre Ming
  10. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    I may be all "wet" about this, but I seem to remember a very tiny amount of CA applied to Goo accelerated the setting time, or maybe it just held the parts in place while the Goo set.

    Any thoughts from the Master Chemist here? Hello - Ken?
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Sorry, never heard of this.

  12. L&N Fan

    L&N Fan Member

    Manny, I believe you can accelerate the setting time of goo with a super glue CA as a kicker. Goo is a rubber type cement, long chain type polymer. The CA may shorten the evaporation time of the glue. Experiment on something less critical first. This link has some good information on glues.


  13. FriscoGeorge

    FriscoGeorge Frisco Employee

    Pardon me if I am wrong, but doesn't "white metal" contain a fair amount of lead? If so, then that is probably the reason for the low melting point since most acid core solder is a 60/40 mix of tin and lead to begin with.
  14. Benny

    Benny Member

    Manny, you might wnat to know about this...

    There are not one but TWO versions of the Pittsburg kit, so I've heard. I've never had the second in had, so I can't verify.

    One is made to fit the Mantua frame, the other is made to fit the AHM/IHC/ETC frame.

    It appears, by the ill fit near the rear that you have the latter version.

    I like the Mantua running gear better, it's also easy to get Mantua gear in NS and with the proper flange profile. IHC is as close to pizza cutter as you can get!

    I hope that helps...

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