1051 4-6-2...

Discussion in '4-6-2 Pacific' started by TAG1014, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    I'm wondering if anyone else enjoyed the Frisco Archive picture of #1051 a few days ago as much as I did? It had all the features of Frisco steam that I really like such as the bell ahead of the stack. I wonder if anyone noticed that the tender seemed to be from a larger engine?? The photo is dated 8-20-48 and I'm wondering if the train is actually the Sunnyland since the engine (standing at the Springfield passenger depot) has the morning sun shining on the front of the engine. Could this train be the Highline train or the local #6 since the Sunnyland was an afternoon train and the sun would be a lot higher in the sky? Any thoughts?I

    Tom G.
     
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  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The 1051 was too heavy for the Clinton Sub between North Springfield and Clinton; this segment had a Cooper's rating of E-42. The 1051 carried a Cooper's rating of E-52.

    A very brief history of the Sunnyland will explain the photo's setting.

    The Sunnyland made its inaugural run on October 7, 1925 and provided through Pullman service between KC -St Petersburg and KC-Tampa. The train also handled a KC-New Orleans sleeper via Memphis and the IC. Through chair cars were handled between KC and Atlanta and a Frisco diner operated between KC and Birmingham. During the following years, the Frisco and connecting roads made numerous changes to the trains’ schedule, equipment, and destinations. On April 21, 1940 the Sunnyland was restructured. Operation between KC and Springfield was discontinued and replaced with locals, 103 and 104, which operated between Springfield and Ft Scott. At Ft Scott, train 103 connected with train 111 and train 104 connected with 118. The Springfield-Memphis segment of the Sunnyland and the Memphis-Birmingham segment of the Sunnyland were now essentially separate trains due to lengthy layovers in Memphis.

    In its 1955 Annual Report, the Frisco management used the words “official policy to discontinue unprofitable passenger trains” for the first time ever. After decades of investing in and operating unprofitable passenger trains, railroad management had thrown-in the towel. On September 30, 1956 the Frisco discontinued trains 101 and 102 (Springfield-Memphis passenger local) and trains 103 and 104 (Springfield-Ft Scott passenger local). On October 1, 1956, the Sunnyland, trains 107 and 108, returned to KC. The “new Sunnyland” was a mere shadow of its former self. It was the local, make every stop between KC and Birmingham train. Between KC and Springfield the train carried 3-4 baggage cars (more as traffic demands required), a baggage-RPO, 2 chair cars, and chair buffet on the end. A single Redbird sufficed for power.

    This is indeed 107 as it awaits its early morning departure time from Springfield.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  3. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom, good question. Wish there was a resource that listed when tenders were either expanded/rebuilt or when tenders were completely switched between engines.

    Regarding 1051, Frisco Power shows the as-built locomotive in 1912 with a 14 ton/8,100 gallon tender. The text notes that the 1040-1059 batch of Alco-built Pacifics were converted to oil-burners beginning in 1924, long before the early 40s-modernization. The following Ivan Oaks photo from 1939 shows an oil-burning 1051 but with at tender of much different appearance than the Arthur Johnson 1949 photo:

    The 1942-43 rebuilt data (also for 1044, 1045 and 1059) show a 4,000 gal. oil/10,000 gal. water tender.

    http://frisco.org/mainline/2014/04/24/4-6-2-1051/

    The earlier photo sure looks more like what one would have expected of the original tender, albeit with an oil bunker plopped into the area where coal was previously loaded. The "taller" tender looks indicative of an increased water capacity. In short, while it seems possible that 1051's tender could have just been rebuilt for greater water capacity, I lack enough confidence and proof that I'd be inclined to buy into anyone else's hypothesis.

    Either way, it's given me a good reason to pour over photos of Frisco steam power in a lot of detail, and that's always a good thing.

    Best Regards,
     
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  4. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I liked these engines prior to the modernization as well as after. I scratchbuilt this one just for my Frisco local passenger trains.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Don -
    The 1050 is gorgeous (sp?). Do you have a pic of it pulling a set of cars?
    K
     
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  6. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    To accompany my earlier comment about pouring over Frisco steam photos and info, I could also never tire of pouring over Don's locomotives. Quoth the late Bill Grigsby: "Beee-yooo-tiful."

    Best Regards,
     
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Based on volumetrics and a little rivet counting, I believe that the tenders used on the rebuilt 1040-class engines came from the spot-class locomotives.
     
  8. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Very sensible, systematic approach, Karl - and makes very good sense.

    I always waffle between either he Frisco's Pacifics as my favorite Frisco steam, or the homebuilt 4300-class Mountains.

    Best Regards,
     
  9. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Geez what a beautiful engine! I'd be first in line to buy a big photo book of Don Wirth's HO engines! I'm still hopeful for a big fat pictorical model magazine article!

    Tom G.
     

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