Switching Single End Industry Tracks - Run Around Sidings - Dutch Drops - Sulligent, AL

I remember watching (from school) the local come into Sulligent about noon (M-F) from Birmingham with empty pulpwood cars behind the locomotives. I could only see them between buildings as they crossed back and forth across Elm St. but I knew what they were doing.

1. Empty pulpwood cars would be at the front of the train behind the locomotives.
2. On the main (upper right in the image) the crew would uncouple the rest of the train from pulpwood empties behind the locomotive, take the empties and pull out loaded pulpwood cars.
3. Then they would somehow leave the empties on the pulpwood track AND get the locomotives out with the loads behind the locomotives, couple to the rest of the train, and head on to Amory.

I could not see all of the switching going on from the school and with the current trackage & switches, I can't figure out how they did it.

1. How did the crew pull out loads with the front of the locomotive AND get the loads behind the locomotives before coupling to the rest of the train?
2. How did the crew pull empties into the pulpwood track AND then get the locomotives out of that track?

There had to be another switch somewhere, right? I'm wonding if the pulpwood track and long siding were connected at both ends of the pulpwood track. Either that or there had to be another switch on the main/long siding at the other (lower left) end of town.

I'm hoping one of the guys who worked that local, in that yard, might read this and reply with the answer.

Brandon

 

Just another addition, I don't know anything about the area your talking about.

However, sometimes in hard to switch areas, a westbound will pickup cars and set them out in the next siding. Then an eastbound will pick them up behind the engines to take to the destination.

Drop switches were common, back in the day, flying switches, Dutch drops also.

 

Indeed, a turnout was in place on the north end.

 

AH HA!!! I knew it! Thanks so much for the track chart.

I could tell that McCoy St. used to cross the tracks but I didn't know Walnut St. ever crossed the tracks. Now I have something to investigate. I've never heard of Saw Mill St., neither is there any sign of it today on Google Earth.

A few streets got renamed when the 911 address system was implemented. Perhaps Armory St. was named Saw Mill St. prior to 911 or either Saw Mill St. was redeveloped when the saw mill closed. I never knew there was a saw mill back there and there is no evidence of one north of the tracks via Google Earth satellite imagery.

Overall, that was a very informative piece of information. I'm going to have to ask some older folks if they remember a saw mill across the tracks between Bogue Creek and Turkey Creek.

Thanks again.

Brandon

 

Please explain a "running drop."

It sounds like a locomotive with cars would build up speed, be uncoupled, the locomotives driven past a switch, the switch thrown before the cars rolled to the switch, and the cars would go into the siding. If that's the case, it sounds a little risky which is probably why it is illegal.

Then again, I'm just guessing about what a "running drop" was.

Brandon

 

Brandon,

You are correct in your description of a "drop". It was a very useful tool in switching industries with facing point switches. It had a certain amount of risk, certainly, but, of all the drops I was involved in, the worst thing that happened was the cars slowing down too much and not clearing.

We had to use a piece of tie to push against the cars to try the drop again. With an inexperienced crew a drop could be hazardous because the speed, timing, and coordination between the crew members needed to be correct.

Instead of letting the old heads teach the new hires the "tricks of the trade", the railroads "dumbed down" all of the employees to the knowledge and experience level of the newest employees. Now, a run around is required to switch a facing point move when the car is behind the engine.

If a suitable run around track is not close by, a crew member has to ride the point for potentially a long distance. Oh, and by the way, the rules for riding the point have also been changed, and not all for the better, making it more difficult to ride for long distances on the side of a car.

Terry

 

Is "Dutch Drop" another name for a running drop?

 

"DUTCH DROP—Rarely used method of bringing a car onto the main line from a spur. The engine heads into the spur, couples head-on to the car, and backs out. When the car is moving fast enough the engine is cut off, speeds up to get back on the main line before the car, then moves forward ahead of the junction between the main line and the spur so the car rolls out behind the engine."

http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/glossry1.Html

GOOD GRIEF!!!

I guess that's one way to pick up loads after leaving empties with a running drop. That sound's dangerous but pretty awesome at the same time.

There are a lot of other railroading terms on that sight.

Brandon

 

Good site,

Dutch drops as it says were rarely used by only the most experienced of crews. Most all these were against the rules, but then again, it took many years to stop " getting on and off moving equipment".

Some of these experienced crews, knew the lay of the track, "where the little dips and humps were" so its not quite as bad as it sounds, just because of their knowledge. In todays time, all of this is a lost art.

In all of my time, I really only saw a drop used a few times, maybe less than five. And that was when I started in the early seventy's. The guys doing the switching were in their late fifty's or early sixty's.

Back at that time, it was not unusual for guys to work into their 70's. My grandfather retired at 76.

Sometime, I will relate another story, I had 5 guys in their 70's on the Steel Gang. Pretty salty railroaders, sometimes I don't know how they continued that long.

 

I can see why these moves have been outlawed.

I watched a Frisco crew kick in an empty boxcar at the American Tripoli plant in Seneca, MO. The engineer misjudged the speed of the empty and it slammed into a boxcar full of bagged material. The loaded boxcar end bulged out and the dust emanating from the car meant that the Frisco had just bought a car full of dust.

 

Actually, William, we dropped cars in Tulsa every day on certain industrial jobs where a run a round track was not available for what ever reason.

On all the refinery jobs, dropping was used daily. On the industrial job 17 working the 300 and 400 yards that also handled the Sand Springs, Katy, and Santa Fe deliveries, we had two regular drops daily.

I hired out on the Frisco in 1971, at age 26 and was introduced to all the different moves, with the Dutch drop as a possible exception, whenever the need for such a move became necessary. As I said in my earlier post, the old heads would teach the new hires how to perform these moves, and it was really no problem.

I don't know where banning dropping, or flying switch as it is also called, originated, but it took a very useful tool away from the crews. These moves could be dangerous, certainly, if not performed properly, but so is driving your car, if not performed properly.

Terry

 

I was looking at this diagram. http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?attachments/sulligent_trk_chart-jpg.19252

1. Can anyone look at the info and tell me how many feet the "Slg.+.08" turnout was from the Bogue Creek bridge?

2. By "X - Buck," (on the right side) does that mean "crossbucks?"

3. What do the numbers, 633, 634, and 635 at the top represent?

4 What do the numbers "35" in between those numbers mean?

5. Is there a similar diagram for the area 2 miles west of Sulligent where a pulpwood yard once sat?

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8880825,-88.1937227,351m/data=!3m1!1e3

The pulpwood yard was on the north side of the main. I would like to know if the turnout was on the east or west end of the siding.

I think it was on the east end of the siding with a right turnout, but it's been so long ago, and I was so young that I can't be certain.

 

1. Sig + .08 Means there is a " block" signal .08 mile south (RR) of MP C634. Since the bridge over Bogue Crk is bridge C634.0, then the signal is 422 feet south of the bridge.

2. Yes

3. Mile Posts (distance from KC)

4. There are 35 poles per mile at this location

5. Yes

 

I wasn't sure whether I should refer to RR directions or actual directions.

Karl, thanks for the interpretation. The poles in HO scale would be about 21" apart.

Can someone post a link to a diagram for MP 632?

 

The singled-end spur had a north connection, and it was on the east side of the mainline.

 

I remember the pulpwood yard, 2 miles west of Sulligent, AL, being on the "RR east" (north) side of the tracks.

Does "north connection" mean trains entered the siding from RR north or does it mean northbound trains entered from RR south?

In other words, was the turnout "RR north" (west) or "RR south" (east) of the yard?