SLSF #1520 near Sullivan Mo, ca 1940s

Discussion in '1500 Class Mountains' started by klrwhizkid, Nov 3, 2020.

  1. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    From Richard Crabtree on Frisco Rails Across Missouri:
    Here is Frisco No. 1520 4-8-2 Mountain Class built by Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1926. 1520 is paralleling US Route 66 with 65 empty oil tankers during WWII near Sullivan, Missouri.

    Image posted by Richard Crabtree without permission of owner (frisco1522) has been removed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
  2. palallin

    palallin Member

    The original B&W is in Frisco Power. I try to picture just where this pic was taken every time I go to Sullivan, but I have had no real success. I have yet to find the curve where Rte 66 is below the RR grade.
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    There are two spots relatively close to Sullivan that may fit: the best is just east of Fanning, the other may be just east of Cuba, however I believe that either is too much of a stretch.
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  4. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I own that negative and did not give permission to publish it on FB or here.
     
  5. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Don and I have been kicking this one around; we like the 3 degree-3 minute curve between 223.45 and 223.91, which was the first curve east of Holman. The Frisco had a 80-car length passing track at Holman MP 224.2. I have attached a portion of a 1947, 15 minute topo sheet image.

    Screen Shot 2020-11-20 at 6.11.04 AM.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  6. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    I agree, that is the location of the shot.
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  7. palallin

    palallin Member

    Where is Holman?
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Sirfoldalot and Ozarktraveler like this.
  9. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    ...and yet here it was. There is also a George Strombeck photo on that site that George did not give permission to use.

    GS
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  10. palallin

    palallin Member

    That location is not "near Sullivan." Either Collias was wrong, or we're looking at a different location.
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Steven, that is true; it is not near Sullivan. I think that Don, Karl and I are in agreement that Joe Collias was mistaken about the location.
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  12. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    As noted in your first post, you haven’t found a matching location in the Sullivan area. That would necessitate an expanded search area. After looking at period USGS topo sheets, Frisco track charts, Frisco curve records, and the Frisco pole line book, the curve ( 223+18 - 223+37-1/2) east Holman, which is most definitely not near Sullivan, would seem to be the most likely candidate for the photo location.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  13. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    It's easy for an author to make a few errors in a book manuscript, in particular a book on a topic the author knows more about than those who might proof read it. For example, Joe erred on page 157, where he noted SLSF 1501 was on display in Cuba, MO. I was with him at Tinkertown one day shortly after he gave me my copy of Frisco Power. I gave him a bit of good natured grief over the location of 1501. He said, "give me a piece of tablet paper from the shop", on which he wrote in big black letters "Rolla, dammit, Rolla!" and gave it to me. We all had a good laugh over it.
    I still have that paper in my copy of the book on page 157. No problem, Joe - you fixed it.
    K
     
    Sirfoldalot and WindsorSpring like this.
  14. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    That’s pretty cool...Personalized, hand-written errata.
     
    Sirfoldalot and meteor910 like this.
  15. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I have written and had published two dozen or so railroad books, and I can state unequivocally that slides and negatives can and do sometimes show up with caption notes on the slide mount/negative sleeve indicating "Train XYZ at Anytown, USA," and it turns out to be completely wrong. (99% of the time, of course, the information is correct.) Other times, I can't be sure, or there is no way to check, and unless the image shows a train in the middle of a blizzard and the caption says, "Miami, Florida, July 1957," I just have to take the word of the individual who took the photo. Other times, there is a picture of a train in the middle of the desert with no caption information at all, and no recognizable landmarks (and the photographer is dead) , so, are we in Arizona or New Mexico or California? In the end you do the best you can, realizing that errors sometimes get by. And in the end, does it really make the photo any less enjoyable to look at? Or would you rather not see it at all?

    GS
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  16. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Lucius Beebe's books were loaded with errors. I bought scans of his/Clegg's Frisco negs from the CA state rr museum a couple of years ago. He had nothing marked for ID. Also the negs were in horrible condition. Scratched watermarks from developing, crappy exposure, etc. I had always thought he took good care of his negs. Clegg's were in better condition. There are a number of Beebe's shots in the book. Some shots had appeared in print elsewhere, but warranted another publication. Most photos in the book are first time out.
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  17. palallin

    palallin Member

    That's a little harsh, don't you think? I am willing to accept the judgment, but I wanted to be sure that everyone was actually talking about the same thing. This photo has been a thorn in my side for 35 years, and I simply pointed out that we have one of two choices, and I wanted clarity. The implied question was neither criticism nor sour grapes.
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  18. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I'm suggesting that sometimes perfect is the enemy of good. Or as (I think) George Patton was quoted as saying, "A good plan violently executed today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow." I thought it was a great photo.

    GS
     
    Sirfoldalot likes this.
  19. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Meteor910 wrote: "I still have that paper in my copy of the book on page 157. No problem, Joe - you fixed it." and that tempts me to suggest a copy be posted here. However, in a thread where ownership is a contentious concern, it is best you do not. The mere telling of the story is enough.
     
    meteor910 and Sirfoldalot like this.
  20. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Joe was a treasured friend. We had a good time with the Cuba 1501 slip in the original book. I keep it in the book as a prized memory of Joe, who was very kind to me. I remember the last time I met with Joe, I think, was at Big Bend and Geyer, on a Saturday morning when 1522 was going to make its last run. Son Kurt and girlfriend were with me. Joe showed up also, and spent a lot of his time while we waited for 1522, describing how great the 1500's were and what a successful career they had, and where others were still on display. Kurt loved it when 1522 came through putting on a great show. Joe was a great asset to the memory of the Frisco.
    K
     

Share This Page