Soooo, if someone could find out what $$ he has been paid for unfilled orders and then apply that towards the artwork, that could be a start. Since I don't know diddly about graphics program, if someone wants to "license" the artwork, then perhaps "licensing" the most hard to produce artwork would be the ones to spend the bucks on. Then the easier stuff could be remade using other source material. I don't know what the BNSF involvement would be.
Not only do we need to know what amount of $ you have sent him, but what decals did you order? That way we will have an idea of what decals are most wanted. If it comes to it, I would be willing to do new artwork in Corel Draw for the most popular decals wanted by the group. By using Corel Draw, you can put each Color on its own layer, so the decal can be printed one color at a time. I'm just thinking out loud, I wonder what a new Apls printer from Japan would cost?
Richard, I've already looked into that. Alps from Japan, new in box are running around 2K-3.3K. All printers were ceased to be made, even in Japan, 2010. Alps is selling out their stocks in the dye sublimation printers. The fact is that support, products, ink cartridges, etc., are to be phased out entirely world wide in 2015. For private use, an Alps is great. However, they are not designed to the rigors of constant commercial usage. You'd burn it out quickly. This is not to say that Alps are bad, or that they don't have their place. High performance dye sublimation printers, capable of printing white and metallics on decal paper, in the quantities necessary for production are available, but they are in the 5K-7.5K range. This is why I am going the route I am going. The cost savings is tremendous over the use of an Alps. Believe me, the research I've done was quite an eye opener.
Please keep in mind that this forum is not a legal non-profit corporation. Whoever owns the rights to the site would actually own anything under the frisco.org name. When you donate to this site you are legally giving funds to a private individual. If there is interest in doing anything as a business by the group then I suggest the formation of a formal corporation so things like this can done without someone having to risk their personal funds, reputation or liability. John Chambers
I'm out $502.75 with Oddballs Decals aka Tom Stolte. Payment for my S scale order was verified by an email from Tom Stolte on Aug. 21, 2011. I have never received a single decal. This has essentially put me out of business in S scale, for his decals were the backbone of my efforts (not just Frisco). I hate to say it, but I pretty much know I will never, ever, see either my money or my decals. It would help if Frisco decals were available in S scale... but I'm still screwed because I would not be able to model the other items on which I depended on Oddballs Decals. Basically my S scale "KC Lines" modeling effort/theme is toast. Andre
Andre, I'm sorry, but I would not be out $500.00. You do have recourses available to you. You have rights. Exercise them. Manny
Andre, don't give up! With the technology today there's got to be a way to reduce and transfer an image to decal paper. I don't exactly know how to do it but model railroaders are the most innovative bunch on the planet. Surely somebody here has the knowledge to get around the loss of a single source. Maybe that's pushing the limit a little too far and I'm just showing my ignorance on the subject. It just seems wrong that one dude with a printer could wreak such havoc and create such a sense of loss on such a fine creative group.
I wouldn't know where to start. I have all the emails as well as a copy of the order and a copy of the cancelled check... but where to start? Andre
All of the $$, hard feelings and well, bad business is just sad, I can see how Andre, Richard Mathews, and all would be angry. It was all so avoidable if Tom Stolte, AKA Oddballs, had just been just a bit more forthcoming in the beginning. So senseless. I was a big defender of Tom Stolte, as we have talked several times over the years. Always found him to be blunt but honest. I regret not being able to be of more help to you. It just is plain bewildering for me. Manny is 100% right about the ALPS printers as some of you may have seen in some of my posts that I have an ALPS printer and they are indeed on their way out. Its all about the sales rights and a bunch of just plain hogwash as to why the technology is basically being abandoned, instead of improving the product if not process. The issue at hand here is again like Manny said the ALPS ability to print most of all White, and secondly the metal colors. I am sure that many of you have had your Inkjet, or what have you, ink cartridges refilled. What we need to do is find a way to refill a Ink Cartridge with White Ink. Perhaps Label it as Black Yellow or whatever. But the Key here is the ability to print White, and make multiple passes. I think the multiple passes might be a doable thing with driver mods, but the ability to print White can not be understated. As anytime you print Yellow, Red, Green, Orange or basically any lighter color, there needs to be an undercoat of White to make the color Opaque. Any ideas on how we can get White Ink to fill an Inkjet cartridge? If someone could come up with White ink. It would be a start. When using My ALPS, I change the White, Finish cartridges all the time in the process, and I have used OKI inks with the ALPS cart chips glued to the OKI's carts to get them to work. So, it is doable. I think between Keith,Charlie, Don, Ken and some of what anyone would consider some of the most capable thinkers in the hobby or industry, right here on the Frisco.org, I just cant help but think we could come up with an idea or two. I am trying to hoard White and Finish carts, but need to be mindful of the ALPS printer longevity shortcomings. Anyway just thinking out loud,
Andre, I think that I would look in seeing what I could do to get recovery. That said, many years ago a hobby shop closed their doors in the KC area and many, many people were out thousands of dollars on mainly brass engines that were sent to be painted. I was a victum as well. I had given him a brass switcher to be painted in B&Y Frisco. I was contacted by people across the country and took everything to a local Missouri Attorney General's ofice to see what could be done. Because it was low profile case and, in their eyes, the losses were small, they refused to do anything about it. Several years later I managed to locate him, operating a hobby shop near Ft Leonard Wood, and all I could get back the body of a brass poultry car for a KC guy. If the USPS was used for part of your transaction, you local postmaster may be a starting point.
Tom, The problem lies within the technology that Alps uses which is known as dye sublimation. DS as I'll abbreviate it, is applied through heat, not a dry process like an inkjet does. This is what makes it waterproof as the DS process embeds the ink onto the topic, i.e., paper, decals, etc. There are inkjet printers that work on dye sublimation available on the primary market, however, most of the small to mid levels do not print white ink. You cannot simply inject white ink into a printer cartridge and try to trick your printer into printing white when it is supposed to print black. Alps printers have a code you need to establish in order to program the color combinations, and since regular inkjets do not work by DS, your water slide decals will be worth about the same as a $3.00 bill. The real DS inkjet printers that will print white and metallic are available, but they are in excess of $6,000.00. That in of itself is cost prohibitive to most modeling enthusiasts. Why no one has carried on where Alps left off is probably because they didn't reach their sales goals, yet the technology which they possessed was the precursor to what printers we have today. Hence, anyone trying to do waterslide decals through ALPS is plagued by a ticking time bomb of a jammed printer, broken printer head, lack of cartridges, or simple mechanical breakdowns. With little or no support, they are about as useful as tata's on a bull. For mass production of decals, I'm afraid that either print screening or dry transfer emulation is the only viable way until someone steps up and produces a viable, reliable, sturdy, DS type printer, that does white and metallics, and can handle the decal load of a Class I railroad's paint shop and then some. Believe me, I've researched this to death. That is why I am going the way I am going in the production of my decals. I know I will have the best decal paper, the sharpest images, and a quality that folks expect from a decal maker. It will just take some time and capital. I'm working on the capital end. With one sets' sales, that will feed the other. I will be producing Frisco, but in order to remain viable, I will need to produce other lines as well. Enter the turn of the century and the world of billboard boxcars, gondolas, tank cars, and specialty cars. I feel for everyone who has been regrettably sucked into the ordeal of Oddballs decals. All I can say, is that with the way I am producing, I will have the decals in hand, will honor all sales, and will not sell, if I don't have. Your satisfaction is guaranteed. I have no problem with getting decals made for folks, but understand, there is a cost for me, and they must be viable. I believe there is a hungry market for Frisco. Not just here, but outside of Frisco.org. I tend to fill that void, even if it is one decal at a time. For those that lost money in this debacle, all I can say is you have rights. Learn them, and execute them. Manny
The following is a PM that I sent to Keith Robinson last night. Seeing as this problem is one where people are left scratching their heads to find a resolution, hear are my thoughts: "Hi Keith, I don't know the circumstances behind Tom Stolte's lack of filling the orders that our members and others have placed with him, but I know that whatever the case may be, his keeping of money without intent to deliver the product that he advertises is wrong and may in fact be a criminal act. I personally ordered decals from Oddballs about three years ago and received my decals very promptly. It's disappointing to see that he has decided to let his business fall by the way-side while still advertising products that he cannot deliver. Mr. Stolte is probably in a bad situation and I wouldn't want things to be any worse for him, but some of our members (one with a $500.00 order) have lost a lot of money in an attempt to give him their business. I am wondering if anyone has tried going through the police department where his business is located in an attempt to have the situation resolved. I used to handle a lot of complaints similar to this, which were classified as Deceptive Business Practice or Stealing by Deceit. An investigation doesn't have to mean prosecution. If an investigation were started, Mr. Stolte may start to consider refunding the money that he has kept. If the police were not willing to treat the matter as a crime, it is at least an issue which could be resolved in small claims court, depending on how much money was lost and whether or not the victim felt that it was worth pursuing. If you know Tom personally, please don't take this as an attempt to start a witch-hunt for him. I would simply like to see him persuaded to do what is right and return the money that he has kept from our members and others. Pat" Keith responded with a likely explanation for Tom Stolte's lack of filling orders, which caused me to have some pity for him, although it does not change the facts in the matter. Out of respect for Keith and the privacy of our conversation, I won't share the exact details of what he told me, but I think it's safe to say that Tom himself became the victim of some very unfortunate circumstances, which has had a dire affect on his business. I should note that while Keith provided me with the likely reason behind Tom's poor business practices, he is in no way is condoning them or making excuses for Tom. While I may some sympathy for him, two wrongs (or many wrongs) don't make a right, and Tom should immediately stop advertising that he has the ability to manufacture decals and refund the money that he has taken and kept from his loyal customers. Pat Moreland, Union Mo.
I guess I can stand to lose the $10 on my nearly year old order (Small compared to some of you other fellows), BUT hard times or whatever business problems he might have had doesn't excuse his very poor "bedside manner." Even a simple inquiry to OB decals usually got a reply with some kind of "attitude" as if he was just too busy to be bothered... Tom G.
For everyone's information, here is the latest from Tom Stolte " like I said each set will be $100.00 each and I will let them have all the artwork and I will delete it from my Oddballs decals web page just the Frisco sets only and would like a wire transfer into my checking account asap routing number is XXXXXXXXX checking account number is xxxxxxx plus tell them to call my bank to not to send the money back if they do not they Will send it back phone number is XXX XXX XXXX call between 9 am - 3 pm Monday - Friday, so please reply back to me when u get this so total price is $5500.00"
Richard, I wholly trust you, and I know you are trying to be a go-between to not lose the materials. Since I do not know Tom Stolte, and I do not want to raise accusation without cause, I only have one question: "If the man has been taking peoples money for a year or more now and not producing any of the goods, and with one member here out $500.00+ dollars, what guarantee does this group have that if they paid Mr. Stotle the $5500.00, they'd actually see one image, since the behavior prior to this transaction speaks volumes otherwise?" Again, I don't lay accusation, but this is a legitimate question. Manny
For those who have lost money (myself included), I would start with the Post Office, as I believe what Oddball has done constitutes mail fraud, and even though the orders are small, in the altogether they constitute a pattern of deception. Of course, whether this leads to a refund or just brings heat on Tom Stolte is anyone's guess, but this current discussion of paying him for artwork strikes me as a blueprint for spending good money on top of bad. Either way, though, it appears he is out of business for good. GS
Manny, I fully agree. Just thinking out loud here again. What are you guys thoughts about this e-mail to Tom. Your offer of $5500.00 for your 55 Frisco decals artwork is simple unacceptable to this group. Since you paid me $25.00 per decal for the artwork I produced for you and the rest you did in house, we feel a much more fair price would be say $30.00 each for a total of $1650.00. However, since many people in this group have paid you for decals that you will never produce for them, and are banding together in groups on Frisco.org, TrainBoard, and other online forums to contact Federal authorities for an investigation of your possibly conducting fraud across state lines; then you have already been paid $562.75 subtracted from the $1650.00 leaves $1087.25 due you for this deal. This is the only offer you will receive from this group.
