New Frisco Cabooses from Overland

Discussion in 'Cabooses' started by Rick McClellan, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Rancho Bob

    Rancho Bob Member

    Yes it I see in my 30 year adventure into NYC in O Scale....the HO BRASS business has changed as well. I'll contact some of the dealers listed. I know the Marsh's as well....maybe a call that direction. So June is still the target as far as anyone knows?

    Thanks for everyone's help.

    Rancho Bob aka Buck Dean
    Jacksonville, FL

    And hello once again to all my old KC FRISCO fans
  2. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Supporter

    To All:

    I had the opportunity to speak with Brian Marsh of Overland last week concerning the timetable of when we could possibility expect the production of the long awaited caboose's. Unfortunately the news was not encouraging. Bottom line, he was not able to give me any production dates or even speculate on such.

    The actual reason that I had the opportunity to speak with him was that he had on consignment Orange & White #1270 from the previous run in 2002. Since it was the only one of the five offered then that I didn't have I wanted to purchase it.

    Back to the issue at hand, with the proliferation of high quality plastic models (case in hand, the Athearn Genesis GP15's, 38's, and 40's), one could speculate that the brass market has been reduced to models such as steam locomotives, low production diesels such as the Santa Fe U30CG's (only 6 prototypes), and unfortunately the International cabooses with the corner window arrangement like the Frisco and a couple of other railroads had. Let me make this clear, Brian didn't say this, I am just assuming such.

    Having said that, I am proposing that we move on and try to find an alternative to being able to build fairly reasonable models with the correct window spacing on the cupola. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Moloco made a conversion kit it to accomplish this but it is no longer available. Since then the detail market has exploded with the concept of 3-D printing. Would it be possible for someone like Kent Hurley in Kansas City to offer a reasonably accurate rendition of the cupola? This would be a starting point. Any other thoughts or ideas on this matter are welcome.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2015
  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Bob, if Paul Slavens could come up with some actual dimensioned drawings from one of the cabooses in his possession, I'll bet our friend Stephen Priest could get another Frisco caboose project in front of one of several plastic model manufacturers. Most plastic models are now being manufactured in a modular fashion which allows things common among many railroads like a basic caboose body to be combined with a modular cupola including variants like different cupola window spacings to build a complete model. So, if our caboose bodies share characteristics with some other (or most other) railroad cabooses, then by making just a different plug-on cupola, a manufacturer has an economy of scale that make a unique model practical to build.
  4. paul slavens

    paul slavens Member

    Keith, that sounds like a good idea, I would be happy to help if the need comes along. The old blue box Athearn wide vision caboose is a great candidate for the 1200-74 body design, the roof edge seams, copula height, and sill plate placement are a match to the original Frisco cabooses, the window placement and smoke jack location are the only major differences. The Roco Austria version of the AHM wide vision is a close match to the 1275-84 Frisco cabooses built in 1968, sill plates are correct, roof edge seam looks good, but of course the windows are the major variation. I have not seen a close match for the low copula 1285-92 Frisco cabooses built in 1969. Like I say if you guys need anything from me I am eager to help.
  5. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    There is a Frisco general arrangement drawing extant of the SLSF 200-274/1200-1274 cabs, with all dimensions and arrangements included. A number of us here in StL, and possibly several others as well, have a copy. All we need to do is find it!

  6. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    Is that drawing on here (the chat group) or published some place like in a model magazine?

    Tom G.
  7. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    I am serious about providing copies of any Frisco rolling stock drawings to Stephen Priest to get stuff into production. Steve assures me that the manufacturers are looking for new projects that can expand their sales, even in relatively small increments, especially if modular design can be used and they can make use of previous modular molds to produce variants of a basic design. Steve cites the proliferation of Frisco locomotives accurate to specific prototypes that we have seen as an example of what can happen thanks to modular design and production.
  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Tom -

    No, it's a 18" x 26" black & white folded copy of Frisco drawing 725B17804, a general arrangement drawing of the new ICC wide-vision cabs, SLSF 200-274 (r/n SLSF 1200-1274 later). It is dated June 14, 1957, so it represents the first class of ICC's as built. It shows the full layout of the new cabs, plus dimensions. No, it has not been posted on, or anywhere else I know of. I thought there were a few more copies among the StL friscophiles here, but perhaps not.

    The cushioned underframe is described as a Waugh underframe - I hadn't heard of that name before. The trucks are General Steel Castings (GSC) outside swing-hanger equalized trucks. I'm not aware of those being available in HO except on the Overland model. The red oscillating warning lights on each roof end peak were Mars.

  9. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    I wonder if anyone had tried to just get some etched brass sides for the cupola and the car body as well. A person could spend a little times sanding the sides of the cupola and carbody and glue some new sided on, and have an accurate caboose. I could be all wrong too.
    Ken the trucks under this not correct caboose are Centralia/Intermountain trucks with journal box lids glued on, are they close to right?

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  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Tom - The trucks look good enough for me!

    What Red Caboose/Intermountain trucks are those?

  11. paul slavens

    paul slavens Member

    I like Keith's idea. It would be awesome to have an accurate plastic model for our 1200s right out of the box. If you cant find any blueprints I would be happy to do what I can to help produce a set of drawings.
  12. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Hi Ken,

    I was incorrect about the Red Caboose. It is the Centralia Car Shops UP CA-3 caboose trucks. All I did was call up Intermountain and ask for the trucks, and got some journal box lids cant remember where I got them right now though.

  13. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Are those UP CA-3 trucks the same as the GSC truck the Frisco used, except that they (UP) had roller bearings? Hadn't thought of that - I'll have to check out a CA-3 pic.

  14. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    I have the drawing, found it last night.

    What is the idea here? - to produce a correct cupola (which I would support) for the Atlas and/or Athearn and/or AHM, etc waycar, or to make an entirely new w/v waycar body shell totally correct for the Frisco? The latter idea sounds nice for us, but also sounds much more risky for the manufacturer.

    Plus, remember, the SLSF 200-274/1200-1274, the SLSF 1275-1284, and the SLSF 1285-1293 waycars were each slightly different. The "correct" Frisco cupola would not work at all for the 1285-1293's, as they were lower in height to meet eastern US clearance limits. Pictures show their decreased height clearly after a close look.


    ps - I've not even looked, but I assume the cupola on the existing HO plastic ICC w/v models comes off somehow so it could easily be replaced with the correct new version. Anybody know?
  15. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member


  16. paul slavens

    paul slavens Member

    Ken, I would be happy to just see a copula as well, its a great start. Also its interesting to note that the height on the copula itself for the 1285-92 cabooses is actually the same as the earlier models, it just sits 6 inches lower on the body. If you look at images from the early cars the bottom of the copula lines up perfectly with the top of the large body side windows, and the bottom of the 1285-92 copula sits 6 inches below the top of the body side windows. BUT the front and rear copula windows for 1285-92 sit higher on the copula body so some modifications would be needed to fit one up.[​IMG][​IMG]

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  17. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Ken, Can you get the drawings scanned at Fedex office to PDF files? That's all Steve says he would need; I/we can come up with pictures. Aside from that, Steve has access to the website.
  18. geep07

    geep07 Member

    Where the SLSF 1200-1274 caboose/waycars built by the Frisco Consolidated Mechanical Shops in Springfield, Mo?
    In my opinion, these are the ones we should emphasize on to have a manufacturer produce these!

  19. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    John -
    No, the SLSF 200-274/1200-1274 series of wide-vision waycars were built by the International Car Company (ICC) of Kenton, Ohio, as were the following two series, SLSF 1275-1284 and SLSF 1285-1293.

    But, the Frisco's Consolidated Mechanical Shops (CMS) in Springfield did get into the caboose business! Following the 1200's, the Frisco eventually needed more road and local waycars in order to retire the collection of old hacks they were still running. In 1973-1974, CMS built a series of additional road cabooses by modifying surplus PS-1 box cars. These waycars were numbered SLSF 1700-1725, plus SLSF 1776, the Frisco Bicentennial caboose, built in 1972, which was CMS's first attempt at building a road caboose. In 1973-1976 they did the same, building the SLSF 1400-1442 series of waycars, again from surplus PS-1's. The 1400's were intended for local, transfer and yard use. They were very similar looking to the 1700 series, but did not have all the amenities the road cabooses were fitted with. In 1979, the CMS was at it again, building the SLSF 1726-1735 series of bay-window road cabooses, once again from excess PS-1's.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2015
  20. geep07

    geep07 Member

    Thanks Ken-

    Do you know what number series were built by the hometown crews?


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