KC Lines: West Bottoms Layout Update

Hi All:

Some time ago I mentioned that I'm moving away from S scale and back to HO on account of limited layout space and increased variety of models available. Thought I'd give a quick update as to the progress of the transistion, as well as ask a few prototype questions.

First some updates:

S scale:

* Liquidation of the S scale is proceeding slowly, but profitably. Most S scale holds its value very well. The sale of my S is going to go a long way in helping me with the conversion to HO.

* All S scale track has been pulled from the layout, and the benchwork is now back down to bare Homasote.

HO scale:

* I'm still in a "find and acquire equipment" mode. Zero actual layout work (other than pulling S scale track) has been attempted.

* I went with Peco code 83 flex track. I now have enough Peco code 83 flex on hand to do the entire proposed layout. I will be going with Peco Electrofrog switches. I already have several onhand and will be procuring enough to do the 12th St. Yard bench along with the entire main w/switches. This will be Phase One. Phase Two will be to purchase the remaining switches to install the industrial tracks. Looks as if I'll be spending around $1600-$1700 for switches alone. (Yikes.)

* I have amassed a sizable fleet of engines to represent various of the railroads of the KC area. To date:

Two Stewart Frisco VO1000's, two BLI Frisco SW7's, one undec Kato RS-2 to become a Frisco unit, one Atlas/Kato RS-1 to become a Frisco unit, one Bowser CGW DS4-4-1000 w/DCC and sound, one Rock Island Atlas/Kato RS-3 in the original scheme, one Atlas/Classic Rock Island RS-3 in the first simplified scheme, one Bachmann S-2 DCC/Sound in ATSF Zebra, probably about a dozen or more pieces of rolling stock, and am in the process of watching several other key pieces on eBay for acquisition.

That takes care of that. Now for the prototype questions:

First off, I'm now modeling the "early 1960s". I am not going to be overly strict as to exact time/date of specific elements, but instead I expect there to be some minor chronological overlap, for there are things I want that are within a year or so apart. I'm okay with that. That said, I do have some questions that aren't particularly Frisco-specific, but more "Kansas City railroads" specific. Seeing as many of you here also model other roads, I'm hoping for some input. Here we go:

MKT/Katy questions:

* Would it be possible for examples of the hood unit/switcher paint scheme used during the majority of the 1950s still be found in 1960? That is, the scheme with the red car body, black frames, big shield on the cab sides, and either yellow/white stripes on the ends. Here's an example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atlas-Class...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I realize Deramus took the helm of the MKT sometime during 1957... but surely not all the units were painted into the Deramus red scheme by 1960 or so? Could there be such units as the above still puttering about on the Katy?

* Would it be possible to still find a "pure Alco" Katy RS-3 still running around in 1960? I know that at least one of the RS-3 repowered engine was converted in 10/59, so I'm wondering if, like the Frisco RS-2's, there were still some "pure Alco" examples still in use in 1960?

Okay, that's all for now or this post will become so long nobody will plough through it and read it!

 

Considering the cost of the turnouts, have you given any thought of using the Fast Track jigs and making your own?

 

Page 69 of Raymond B. George's Missouri-Kansas-Texas Lines In Color shows a picture of a converted RS-3. A part of the caption reads "Katy modified only six of its original fifteen RS-3s. #1701 and 1702 (two boiler-equipped dual service units), 1553 and 1559-1561. These engines received new numbers 142, 143, 146, and 152-54 respectively."

Katy's non-boiler-equipped RS-3s were originally numbered 1551-1563. It seems that the Katy renumbered all their locomotives in 1960 into a 3 digit system. This group was now 144-156.

Rich

 

Rich:

Thanks a bunch, that is EXACTLY the type of information I was hoping for. Guess this means I can have Katy pure Alco's in "the early 60s"... now if I can just pin down the possibility of one or more original schemes surviving that long.

Bob and Don:

The lack of prefab, good quality switches, made with scale-sized rail, is one of the primary reasons I'm leaving S scale. I simply do not have the time, or the energy, to build that many switches. It is worth it to me to pay for the prefab switch. I do appreciate the input and suggestions!

 

Rich:

One more thing...

The book you mention: Does it have several good pictures of hood units and switchers in the pre-Deramus paint schemes?

Thanks.

 

The short answer is "yes". It's divided into chapters according to each president's tenure spanning from World War II to merger with the UP.

Rich

 

Ray George's book has a wide selection of Katy units in the original (as delivered) "Fraser" scheme and the Deramus solid red scheme (ca. 1957-63). Deramus was there from 1957 to about 1961, but that scheme (all red with simplified herald) lasted until Barriger became president ca. '64-'65. And the only real difference between the Deramus and Barriger paint schemes was that Barriger just covered up the simplified scheme with a new "K-A-T-Y" herald decal. Some other books that have a lot of photos of the Deramus era are Steve Goen's Miss Katy In The Lone Star State, 1942-1960 (Four Ways West). There's also a new book: Katy In Color, Volume Two (Morning Sun).

Tom G.

 

Thanks Rich and Tom.

I have made an offer on a copy of the Raymond George MKT in Color V1 book you mentioned. We'll see!

Sheesh... last thing I need is another railroad of interest to find/procure examples of! Oh well!

 

Coonskin--I model the ca. 1960 period (Although in N scale) and the Katy and Rock Island are my secondary railroad favorites after the Frisco. I also like the Santa Fe KC-Tulsa line (Especially the Tulsan and Oil Flyer passenger trains).
If you're interested in Kansas City area railroads, I suggest you look up Dr. Nick Muff's HUGE fabulous Kansas
City Union Station and Kansas City Southern HO layout: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh-2011-08-aug/kcs_layout I'm also fascinated by the Deramus era on the M-K-T. Most Katy fans hate the period but it happened and I find it interesting. If you want interesting diesel lash-ups, Deramus' Katy and Rock Island of the late 50's and 60's are "IT!"

Tom G.

Edit: That link doesn't seem to work, try "Dr. Nick Muff, HO railroad" in Google. Also try: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWGgKcHoPdk

 

Hi Tom!

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a watch soon.

Yes, I am interested in most of the KC roads, and hope to represent most of them, even the Union Pacific!! However, I'm talking the 1st generation stuff, so that makes a huge difference. (Love those UP FA1's, for example.) As for the Katy, I envision a couple of their units for transfer work: A pure Alco in the earlier scheme and a Deramus Red Baldwin S12 that Bowser is just now beginning to ship.

Hi Chris!

I already have a "Version 1" track plan. I expect there to be variations from it, but I do have a "start here" plan on paper.

Yes, the KCT is another "gotta' have" railroad. I intend to use a pair of the new retooled Atlas S-2's for two KCT units. That is IF Atlas will ever receive and deliver their new S-2! The main roster of the KCT consisted of Alco products. However, the KCT had two EMC NW2's that were made/delivered in 1938: Numbers 60 and 61. Number 61 was modified essentially into an SW8 in 1952. The 60 was cut up for scrap in 1964. The 61 was sold later to a gravel/sand operation in Sioux Falls, SD. Haven't decided if I'm ever going to try to represent one of those with a modified BLI SW.

FWIW: My offer was accepted on the Katy book.

 

Hi Chris:

Tell me about it on the new tooling S-2. I've been watching eBay for those and they ain't around. The Atlas website proclaims they were to be delivered "Fourth quarter of 2013":

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hos2.htm#.U4CdG2cU9aQ

However, like I've said: I can't find them. I strongly suspect they have not been received. My idea was to use the Pennsy version as a starting point, that way I get black molded handrails with the yellow end paint already applied. (A much better option than painting grey molded hand rails black/etc.) Using some 600 grit to lightly remove the hood lettering/numbers, reshoot the sanded panel with satin black to match the factory paint, and presto: Ready for some KCT decals.

Anyway, that was the plan. I guess I could just use the older Atlas/Roco as a starting point, but that would require a ton more work. (May have to mill some of the frame to make room for DCC/Sound, will have to remove the cast on ladder grabs and add wire ones, and fabricate new brass handrails to replace the thicker cast plastic ones, etc.) A lot of work... but would only want two KCT units... so somewhat "do-able".

 

On second thought, that Pennsy may have some weird "greenish red black" paint on it (Brunswick Green). So, undec and paint it myself may be the best approach.

 

Keith:

No milling is good to know.

You've actually seen/handled the Atlas/China S-2's???

Have they been released?

 

Ah... got it. Looks like the next batch is coming in with DCC/Sound if one goes that direction. Still think I'd better go with undecorated units instead of trying to convert the Pennsy engines.