Division Point U25B Announcement

Wooo! - gotta get one of those b/y high-nose U-boats. I can live with the two Stewarts for the low-nose U25b's, but long for one of the somewhat homely hi-nosers.

Nice view of the top of 827 in its pic. And, look at the neat PT-boats following in the consists in both the 803 and 827 pics.

Ken
U-boat lover (achugga chug chug chug achugga chug chug ...........)

ps - Rick, let's stick with the Peter Pan. We Frisco-folk gotta maintain our standards.

 

Hmmm. This is supposition, but I'll bet what happened with the Stewart U25b model body shell is as follows:

Recall the first Stewart U25b had an Athearn drive and chassis, and was the "early" (some call it the "classic") U25b (Phase III?), with the flat short hood, the one piece main windshield, and handrail posts mounted to the top edge of the side walkways. Later, Stewart introduced a second U25b model, this one being the later Phase IV version, which had the sloped short hood, a two piece main windshield, and handrail posts mounted to the side of the frame. It also had a Kato drive and better trucks - much better.

I have one of each of these, though I bought two of the later Phase IV's (the second one in PRR colors), then built the PRR U25b using the Athearn chassis from the Phase III(?) kit I originally bought. I then sold the PRR, leaving me with both low-nose U25b styles on Kato drives, both undecs. One of these years I'll finish them.

The only problem with this is that Stewart left the side handrails mounted to the top of the frame on the second (Phase IV) version. They did do the changed windshield and the short hood correctly on both.

It sounds like they will be using the basics of the Phase IV shell for the new releases.

On the Frisco, SLSF 808-815 were the "classic" (Phase III?) versions, and came in black & yellow in 1962-1963. SLSF 816-831 were the Phase IV models, and came in red/orange and white, among the first Frisco units to come in those colors new from the factory, in 1965-1966.

Though I am an EMD locomotive fan, I aways liked the U-boats, on any railroad. I easily recall their sound coming up Rolla Hill: achugga chug chug chug achugga chug chug chug ...... Their turbocharged four-cycle FDL engine had a much different chugging sound than the chant of the two-cycle EMD 567's and 645's (either with a Roots blower (F3,F7,F9,FP7,GP7,E7,E8,GP38,GP38-2,GP15-1) or turbocharged (GP35,GP40-2,SD45,SD40-2,GP50)).

Ken

 

Very deep sigh! ..... I give up, you just can't put these things in boxes easily like I want to do.

After looking at a bunch of Frisco low-nose U25b's, it appears that:

- The "classic" U25b low-nose units (were they called Phase III?) were SLSF 808-815, (1962-1963). These had the flat short hood, the one-piece windshield, and handrail posts going into the frame at the top edge of the walkway. The Stewart Phase III (?) model is thus accurate for SLSF 808-815.

- The Phase IV U25b did show up on the Frisco starting with SLSF 816 (1965) through SLSF 831 (1966). They have the two-piece windshield, and the revised handrail stanchions that are mounted on the the side of the frame.

BUT ..... Phase IV U25b's SLSF 816-823 (1965) have a flat short hood, just like the earlier units! Geez, why did they do this to us?

Only Phase IV U25b's SLSF 824-831 (1966) have the sloped short hood as I described earlier.

Thus, the Stewart Phase IV model is correct for SLSF 824-831, except that the Stewart model still has the handrail posts going into the top edge of the side frame, which is incorrect for any Phase IV U25b.

Perhaps Don and others are right - steam locomotives do make more sense and are easier to understand!

Ken

 

Sherrel and Ken,

The Frisco's U-25-B units fell into 4 production "phases".

These "phases" or spotting differences included the following major distinguishing features:

SL-SF 800-807 - Phase Ib
High front hood, inside handbrake (not visible), vertical corner end steps, cab sub-base with 3 access doors under engineer position, all of the hood access doors are tall, vertical mount (into walkway) side and end handrails, 2 step fuel tank with air tanks at rear inset parallel to frame side sills.

SL-SF 808-815 - Phase IIa
Low front hood with minimal forward taper, 1 piece windshield above short hood, wheel type handbrake, inset corner end steps, cab sub-base with 3 access doors under engineer position, all of the hood access doors are tall, vertical mount (into walkways) side and end handrails, long fuel tank with air tanks fore and aft perpendicular to frame side sills.

SL-SF 816-823 - Phase III
Low front hood with minimal forward taper, 2 piece windshield above short hood, wheel type handbrake, inset corner end steps, cab sub-base with 2 access doors under engineer position, 4 short hood doors (below exhaust stack) between engine compartment and rear radiator vent, top door latches on tall doors lowered to short door height, side mount (into side and end sills) side and end handrails, long fuel tank with air tanks fore and aft perpendicular to frame side sills.

SL-SF 824-831 - Phase IV
Low front hood with increased forward taper, 2 piece windshield above short hood, lever type handbrake, inset corner end steps, cab sub-base with 2 access doors under engineer position, 4 short hood doors (below exhaust stack) between engine compartment and rear radiator vent, top door latches on tall doors lowered to short door height, side mount (into side and end sills) side and end handrails, long fuel tank with air tanks fore and aft perpendicular to frame side sills.

I have highlighted changes between phases in italics.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

 

Very helpful. Thanks Mark! I missed the fact there were three phases between SLSF 808 and 831, not just two. I always just looked quickly at the front window or the short hood and made the call that way. Not that simple!

Ken

 

The original HO Stewart U25b (the one with the Athearn drive) is a Phase IIa, good for SLSF 808-815. These came in b/y and were eventually repainted in o/w. They have the flat short hood, the one-piece windshield, and handrail posts that mount into the top of the side frame.

The later Stewart HO U25b (the one with the Kato drive) is meant to be a Phase IV, for SLSF 824-831. These came in o/w. They have the sloped short hood, the two-piece windshield, and should have handrail posts that mount to the side of the frame. However, Stewart chose to leave the handrail posts as in the earlier model, mounted to the top of the frame, which is incorrect for a Phase IV.

There really is no correct Stewart model for the Phase III, SLSF 816-823. These came in o/w. You could approximate one by putting the Phase IV Stewart cab on to their Phase IIa model. But, the handrails will still be incorrect. Stewart does (at least they used to) sell parts, so the Phase IV cab may be easy to get.

From what Bob has reported, it sounds like the new Stewart U25b release, in o/w, will basically use their Phase IV model, with some improvements. These will be close to SLSF 824-831. However, the handrails will still be incorrect in that they mount to the top of the frame.

Again, thanks to Mark for correctly outlining the Frisco U25b phases. I hope I got it all straight above!

Ken