What to do behind a Racehorse

Discussion in 'Passenger Equipment' started by Flashwave, May 17, 2010.

  1. Flashwave

    Flashwave Member

    Hello Frisco modellers.

    I'm new here, and wile I don't protest to be a Frisco guy myself, I cannnot deny a pretty paint scheme when I see one. Such is how a P2K Citation ended up in my collection.

    Now, I'm trying to find a consist to put behind it. I'd like something fairly small, cause I'd like the train to be also functional as a Private Varnish special, like the PRR E7s out of Junita, in addition to being a consisted train that I can take to club and be fairly close to prototype. All the stuff I've found though is either too long for practicality, or has too many baggage cars to work as a special train. If possible, I'd rather run the single E7, since that's what I have. Another reason for a short train
    Any ideas?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2010
  2. wpmoreland719

    wpmoreland719 Member Frisco.org Supporter


    Frisco train no. 710 was a Monett Missouri to Fort Smith Arkansas Meteor connection. It was usually four to five cars long, consisting of a couple of baggage cars and two or three coaches. Streamlined passenger cars often wound up in the consist, and although it usually had a single black and yellow F unit for power, one of the Scarlet Red Racehorse E's could occasionally be seen at the head.

    I've got one of the old Rivarossi E8's that I'm trying to fix up, since I have the same idea that you have.

    Hope this helps,

    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.
  3. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Morgan -
    Pat's suggestin is a superb one; #710 would be a great candidate.

    As a River Division native, I'll include #807/#808, "Sunnyland" that ran between St. Louis and Memphis. I've seen at least two home movies that show the southbound train stopping over in Chaffee with a singe Redbird on the point, with several head-end cars (3 to 5 total) and a single coach.

    Ken McElreath wrote up an article on this train for the FMIG Newsletters. Ken included some good specifics in his article.


    Best Regards,
  4. The "High Line" local (Springfield-KC via the secondary line through Clinton) used a wide variety of motive power over the years. E-units were used at least occasionally in its last days of operations in the early 1950s.

    This operation has been discussed here and here at www.frisco.org, and this issue of All Aboard (p.16) contains an article about the train's last run in 1954.

    North of Clinton, of course, #20 would have included another baggage car equipped to carry poultry, as discussed in the Frisco threads above. This might be "too many baggage cars", but you could just model the southbound #21, or #20 on the southern half of its run before it got to Clinton.

    The biggest shortcoming might be that, if you want to be strictly accurate, a model Tr. 20/21 wouldn't give that Racehorse much chance to show off its speed, since there were speed restrictions on the Clinton sub. According to a 1959 employee timetable, passenger trains were restricted to 40 mph between Springfield and Bolivar, 30 mph between Bolivar and Clinton, and 35 mph between Clinton and Leeds Jct.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2010
  5. Flashwave

    Flashwave Member

    Thanks guys.

    I saw 710 before, but I could never find a picture with only one engine to it. The Race was always paired with a second E, or at lest an F. It twas also my original issue of the baggage cars. I'm not against them, but the phots I'd found of the 710-11 trains had enough baggage space in the train that a PV excursion culd hold a full ballroom dance.

    I like the Sunnyland, and the link to it also spat out some other trains to look at. NAmely, I like the Sunnyland cause I can get away with a buffett car, and a possibly a crew (through) sleeper or at least a business car, if I go with the early 50s train.
    The RPO in this instance beign a tool/crew car for 2016 when operating over the road in the Y2ks.

    20 and 21 also aren't bad, I don't have some of the PV amenities possible, but they are shorter, IE, easier to model. Hee Hee. And I can alsways get creative with what's in the RPO nowadays, no reason it couldn't be a full crew car. And possibly, DIner servcice could be handled by a visiting car in the excursion, as I do have a few PV cards with lounge capabilites. Hmm.

    EDIT: And RPO-Baggage-Coach is not too many baggage cars. We can do dances, or just open air excursions in the bag car, with the RPO again running crew service/tool. RPO-Baggage-Baggage-Baggage-Baggage-Baggage-Baggage-Coach, is kinda pushing it for me.

    I'm off to ponder, if anyone else has a few thoughts, let me know! I'll gladly consider them.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2010
  6. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    I don't think you'd be warping plausibility to run just one baggage car. More often than not, the prototype evidence seems to show fluctations in the amount of head-end traffic. November-December holiday package shipping seems to have added extra baggage/express cars to 807/808.

    Furthermore, the "one coach" rule didn't always apply. At least for "Sunnyland's" final run, an extra coach was added in order to accomodate the additional riders.

    Here's a link to Tim Cannon's Chaffee MO Website that includes a movie clip of #807 stopping over in Chaffee behind E8 #2011 (Gallant Fox); it appears to have a consist of:
    • 2 baggage cars
    • 1 RPO
    • 2 coaches
    However, from the paint scheme on #2011, not to mention train length, it's most like earlier 1950s action.


    At any rate, go with the consist you've outlined. If anyone asks, just tell them "traffic's down this month!"

    Best Regards,
  7. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    I've been away a few days and missed most of this thread--An E-8 (But sometimes an FP-7 or a passenger GP-7) and only three passenger cars were common all over the Frisco in the 1950's to the early 60's. Trains 103-104 (KC to Springfield via Fort Scott) in the early 50's ran with a baggage, baggage-RPO and coach and a buffet (One extra car in this case). Trains 101-102 (The Springfield-Memphis version of the "Sunnyland") during this same period ran with just three cars. In the later 50's and early 60's the KC-Memphis version of the "Sunnyland" commomly ran with three cars. Ditto the KC-Tulsa Firefly (Tr. 117-118) ran with three cars. Three car "Pike-Size" passenger trains (To use Kalmbach's term) ran on the Frisco on most lines where passenger service was offered. Four cars (And sometimes only two car) trains were also common.


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