SLSF 5005 & 5007, F9's rebuilt from F3's

Discussion in 'F9' started by meteor910, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Did SLSF 5005 & 5007 have any appearance differences from a new, fresh built stock EMD F9? (Other than Frisco-specific features)

  2. gna

    gna Member Supporter

    Ken--I found this photo of 5007: There's one other photo of 5007 on that site.

    It looks like a stock F9 to me, with the additional air filter opening ahead of the porthole and dynamic brakes. The Dynamic brake fan may be a later one, with a higher rim, but I'm not sure. I hope some more knowledgeable will chime in, though.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2008
  3. gna

    gna Member Supporter

    Ken--I just checked Marre's Frisco in Color, and there's a picture of 5005 on p. 62. Marre refers to 5005 and 5007 as F9AMs. That being said, I can't tell any difference between the pictures of 5005 and 5007 and the F9s in 2nd Diesel Spotter's guide and books of that ilk--Farr air grill, extra air filter opening with vertical slots ahead of porthole, large dynamic brake fan.

    Oddly enough, the nose grabs are painted yellow.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2008
  4. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    The "M" in F-9AM is just standard EMD notation for a unit that has been rebuilt from an older unit. The KCS E-9's that were rebuilt from E-3's were technically E-9AM's. It reflects the fact that there were likely certain components from the older units used in building the new ones.
  5. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    While staying here in Olathe, son Kurt gave me a used, but pristine, copy of the book by the late Chard Walker, Cajon. This book is one of the better works describing the Santa Fe's line climbing out of the LA basin up over Cajon Pass, one of the more famous railroad locations in the US. Mr. Walker was a long-time relief operator at the Summit and Victorville stations on the Cajon Pass line. The UP also has trackage rights on the Cajon line.

    Anyway - on page 176 is a nice picture of F9A SLSF 5007, with two SLSF F9B's and, no doubt, F9A SLSF 5005 bringing up the rear in a perfect ABBA consist. The picture shows them coming into Summit station on 2/21/62 bringing in symbol freight CTX. This reflects one of the early run-throughs, in which the Frisco and the Santa Fe interchanged via run-through using the QA&P on CTX eastward and QLA westward. The use of the QA&P in this fashion saved a several hour delay at the normal ASTF/SLSF interchange point at Floydada.

    Preparing for this service was one of the main justifications for rebuilding F3's 5005 and 5007 into F9's, with their greater power (1750HP vs 1500HP) and the addition of dynamic braking. Both the extra power and the d/b were required on the mountain grades out west. An ABBA F9 consist like this had 1000HP more than did a F3 or F7 ABBA set (7000HP vs 6000HP).

    Also pictured on page 177 is a set of three Frisco high-hood U25b's with SLSF 803 in the lead on CTX at the Summit station on 2/20/62. This service was one of the main early uses of the then brand new Frisco U25b's. The three U-boats delivered 7500HP and also had d/b.

    It was a pleasant surprise while looking through the book admiring the pictures to see Frisco black & yellow! FYI, this book is available in many public libraries. It was published in 1985.

  6. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Supporter

    Ken, I had no idea that Frisco units went that far west. Also, I did not know that the train symbols were different for the ATSF and the Frisco because the train was CTB on the Frisco. I don't know how far east the ATSF units went pre Avard, but I didn't seen any ATSF units in Tulsa until then. I hired out in 1971, so there may have been some earlier, but not after then. I had the privilege to run the Fs, and I can tell you it was a different feeling than the second generation units. With the comfort cabs of the last years, that feeling of being up in the sky returned. Terry
  7. HWB

    HWB Supporter

    Very interesting. I like the thought of my Frisco units wandering past Avard and mingling with the Santa Fe in the desert sun. Maybe one of those F's could find their way into the El Capitan or Texas Chief consist. Who know's.. maybe an SD45 led the Super C once!
  8. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Supporter Supporter

    I have a rail "memory" from those ATSF/SLSF "run through" days. One night about 9 PM. I was driving north toward the grade crossing near Broadway & Commercial St. by the Anheuser-Busch grain elevators in Springfield when the crossing bell and blnkers went off.
    I could see a headlight over in the North Yard to the east on a westbound train moving slowly westward toward the yard and shops. I stopped, I don't think there were any other cars behind me, but at any rate I was first in line at the tracks.
    Slowly, the train approached the crossing just at a creep. As it came closer, the most melodious and loudest diesel air horns I think I ever heard blew the longest (two longs, a short and about a thirty second L-O-N-G) grade crossing warning blast I'd ever heard. The air horns alone were breath taking!
    Then came the engines: The cleanest, shinyiest, most perfectly matched six-unit set of blue and yellow Santa Fe F-7's in an A-B-B-B-B-A lashup crept by. A "Railfan Moment" if there ever was one...

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2010
  9. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    The original locomotive pool consisted of 4, 6-unit ATSF covered wagons and 2, 4 unit sets of Frisco U-25B’s, and 1, Frisco 6 unit F-9 set.

    The units accumulated mileage at psgr locomotive rates.
  10. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Supporter Supporter

    Karl--What were the years when that was first going on (The Santa Fe F-7's/Frisco F's & U-25B's)?

    Thanks, Tom
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    Early '62 through '64. By '64 there were sufficient GP-35's and U-Boats on the Frisco side to "retire" the covered wagons from pool service.
  12. Ozarktraveler

    Ozarktraveler Member

    I love this kind of stuff...
  13. pensive

    pensive Member Supporter

    On pages 62-63 of Marre/Sommers' Frisco In Color is a photo of the 6 unit F9 set that the Frisco contributed to the Santa Fe pool service. The caption reads in part "At Oklahoma City, in February of 1965, F9AM 5005 leads no fewer than four F9B's and another A unit, turning back West after handing off a Santa Fe train to a new set of power." This suggests that the F9's in pool service lasted past 1964.

  14. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Supporter Supporter

    Those run-throughs went through the Springfield depot for a while after the passeger sevice was dicontinued. Down the passenger line from Nichols to the depot, then out on through town. At that time, they didn't stop and the crewmen hopped on and off the moving trains.

  15. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    In as much as the EA-7 model designation, is an EMD moniker, it should be the correct and standard name used for these units. Well before diesel spotting became an art form, the Frisco created its own model names for its F-3's, which received modifications and upgrades. Please note the locomotive roster.

    The Frisco was quite happy splice two F-9B's between a pair of U-Boats or a pair of GP-35's. It was also common to insert a single covered wagon between a pair of SD-45's.

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