SLSF #2019, Cavalcade on #107-117, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

Discussion in 'Action Photos' started by klrwhizkid, May 17, 2013.

  1. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    The attached picture is of SLSF #2019, Cavalcade, southbound on #107-117, The Sunnyland, at the Antioch Street crossing just north of Merriam, KS, on April 5, 1958. Original photo by James A Williams.



    I made a mistake in copying the information supplied with the picture. I failed to note that the train was a combination of #107 and #117 leaving KC.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2013
  2. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    This picture that Keith posted, shows how the combined train looked before it arrived at Ft. Scott and was slpit. Thanks Keith, very neat photos.

    Tom G.
     
  3. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Some of the chat the other day was about how Ft. Scott would be a neat place to model, this is an example of an operation that could be included in a Ft. Scott layout.

    Tom G.
     
  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Keith, that is a dandy. Thanks VERY much for sharing!

    Tom: tell me more! Has the splitting of the combined train been discussed here previously? I'll have to look for details.

    Best Regards,
     
  5. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Chris:

    What would you like to know?

    GS
     
  6. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Don't know if it's been discussed before, but going southbound from Kansas City (In the ca. 1950-56 period), tr. 103 was split off tr. 111 at Ft. Scott. Northbond, tr. 104 was combined at Ft. Scott with tr. 118. Later (After 1956) when trs. 103-104 were discontinued. The combinations were: trs. 107-117 and 108-118. As I understand it, the southbound combined train left KC and when it arrived at Ft. Scott, it was broken down into two trains. The reverse was performed on the northbounds 108 and 118.

    Tom G.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2013
  7. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107-117, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Thanks very much, Tom. Greg, this is the type of info I was desiring. I never even given thought to Ft. Scott as being a location where much passenger switching/train splitting would have taken place.

    Best Regards,
     
  8. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107-117, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Wow... I was six years old at the time that pic was taken. I do remember the crossings over in that area, but not many details.

    Dad used to shop at a lumber company in Merriam that was right on that line and received rail service. I recall watching the trains go by when he was over picking up lumber for another project. Used to be SOOO disappointed when the oncoming train proved to be a passenger train... it went by too quickly! (Freights took longer and were more interesting to me at the time.) Man those passenger trains used to click by at amazing speeds for such suburban track.

    Thank for sharing the pic!

    Andre
     
  9. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    This is pure speculation, but my guess is that the locomotive, first two cars and last two cars had arrived Fort Scott as train 118 while the middle three had been 104. My basis for saying this is that 118 arrived Fort Scott ten minutes ahead of 104, so I assume that it was then split apart so that upon its arrival, 104's locomotive would cut off and its train inserted between the two halves of 118. Whether this was done by the road crews or by a switch engine I have no idea. Each train would have had a baggage car and a baggage-RPO. Train 118 had a coach plus a Buffet-Parlor while 104 only had a coach. What is really interesting is that it was accomplished within ten minutes from 104's arrival -- something Amtrak would be totally incapable of doing today!

    It's always nice when a photo is more than just the locomotive as, especially with passenger trains, the train itself often has a story to tell. Thanks for posting.

    Gordon
     
  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107-117, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Thanks for the additional info, Gordon. That all seems highly plausible to me.
     
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: SLSF #2019 on #107-117, the Sunnyland, at Merriam, KS

    Are those gold whisker stripes or Duluxe whisker stripes on 2019? If gold, what happened to the white outline?

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2013
  12. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken, it's a little easier to see on the original picture that the white outlines appear to be there.
     
  13. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Keith. Makes sense that it would likely be a white-striped gold version in 1958. The white was probably pretty dull and/or beat up I imagine unless it was recently shopped.

    Just proves I did need to get that left eye fixed! (Did it early this orning, all went well)

    Ken
     
  14. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    It was long before this picture was taken, but the E-8s were originally delivered without the white stripes. It was determined that there was insufficient contrast between the red and gold and so the white outline of the gold was added. This shows clearly in some of the very early publicity shots.

    Gordon
     
  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Gordon, I have builder's photos on my computer at home (which I will add to this post later) that would indicate that at least some of the E8s had the white outlines from production. One which I happened to have on my laptop, 2016 Citation is attached. 2020 Big Red was hiding on my desktop.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2013
  16. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Indeed! SLSF 2016 & on had their white outline stripes applied at EMD as they were being finished. All the earlier units were white-striped by the Frisco after they were delivered (or being rebuilt as in the case of the E7's).

    Ken

    ps - Attached are three EMD pics of 2016, Citation.
     

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  17. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    Without question the white outline was a huge improvement. I don't have readily available a photo of the early E-8's as delivered, but the overall impression was not nearly so striking. I had never stopped to look at whether all of the E-8's were originally delivered without stripes or not, so thanks for setting the record straight. I still think that it is a particularly attractive scheme, the names of famous horses just adding to its appeal. Several lasted well beyond the end of Frisco passenger service, so it's really too bad that none quite made it to the point of preservation. Nothing before or since the E-units sounded quite the same -- when I first went to work for the CB&Q in Chicago in 1968 I rode a commuter train home in the evening that got to my stop just in time for me to walk to the end of it and see the Denver Zephyr come barrelling through on center track at 75mph with three or four E-units in Run 8. If that sound didn't give you an adrenalin rush, I don't know what would (sorry Don, but steam was gone).

    Gordon
     
  18. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Here are company pics of SLSF 2020 and 2021 as they were received by the Frisco from EMD. Looks like they came in together. Note the paper (or cloth) coverings over the trumpets of the horns.

    They sure looked good, eh?

    Ken
     

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  19. John Sanders

    John Sanders Member

    There is a "Vanishing Vistas" color post card of a Frisco E8 outside of the EMD shop with gold stripes. Looking in the archives I found a photo of three units in Springfield with gold stripes. I was under the impression they had the white added at EMD, but at least three made it to Springfield without the white stripes.

    John Sanders SLSF_2015_E8_LaGrange_IL_1950_Gold_Stripes_EMD_Photo_150_DPI.jpg SLSF_E8_2015_Units_Gold_Stripe_Springfield_MO_1950_300_DPI.jpg
     
  20. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    John, I think there were more than three delivered without white stripes. In the group photo, it appears all those engines were two-unit sets. I believe 2006 through 2012 (Not sure if 2012 was the cut-off??) were originally delivered without the white outline stripes. Those units then had the stripes added later. 2013 (Again not sure of the cut-off??) through 2022 were delivered with stripes added at the factory. If you'll look closely at photos of 2006-2012, their stripes with the outlines added after the fact, look "fatter" for lack of a better word. To add further confusion, I think all the "Racehorses" had a complete full re-paint at least once before any simplifying and touch-ups began being added.

    Tom G.
     

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