Poll: New(er) Frisco ACF 2 bay hopper car suggestions

Discussion in 'Covered Hoppers' started by gjslsffan, Dec 17, 2017.


How would a modern Frisco applied the "Frisco herald" to modern 2 bay hoppers?

Poll closed Jan 1, 2018.
  1. Use Red with a White background Frisco coonskin herald

  2. Use Black coonskin herald (no background color)

  3. Use Black with a White background coonskin herald

    0 vote(s)
  4. Use Blue with a White background coonskin Herald

    0 vote(s)
  5. Use the traditional spelled out FRISCO letters on the sides of the car

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    OK I have a few of these newer Athearn RTR 2 bay hopper cars. I am back dating and getting rid of, or purging some BNSF stuff. I used to enjoy up-to-date modeling, but lately I want to model the older roads even with modern equipment. I know a real stretch for me right? Anyway, I used erasers to remove the BNSF from this and perhaps another 1/2 dozen or so cars. I would like your opinions as to which Frisco logo to attach.
    OK. S0, what I want to know is should I decal like this SL-SF heritage car (image attached below), using
    SL-SF reporting marks of course. As to this day in my world the SL-SF is still a vibrant RR with the QA&P connections to the west?

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?attachments/4466be83677c8bcc2881f6531fb79394-jpg.18892/ "not my image".

    Or should it be the Black/White coonskin herald, Like used on Yellow or Beige boxcars?

    Or spelled out "FRISCO" like the traditional 2 bay cars were done.

    What should I do? Let me know, cause what you vote for is what I will do for at least 4 cars. Thats all I can find right now LOL
  2. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Glad to see you taking this step! I like it!
    modeltruckshop likes this.
  3. tferk

    tferk Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I see the voting is favoring the red logo, which make me wonder if voters are voting for what they would like to see, instead of thinking about what the company would choose. My guess would be if the Frisco had stayed independent, they would have continued with their application of "FRISCO" spelled out in black on gray cars, or applied a black herald with no background. Think low cost, low maintenance.
    gjslsffan and modeltruckshop like this.
  4. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom - I strongly favor the traditional FRISCO and so voted. I think it makes for a stronger identity than do the smaller coonskins. Also matches all the Frisco Pullman Standard cars. The two-bay cars you have were the only example of the ACF "Center Flow" design the Frisco obtained. That is one of the few bad decisions they made in my opinion. Our experience, with three bay cars usually, was that the ACF car was the better design and unloaded easier. The P-S is a good car though.
  5. Great stuff Tom. For what little its worth, I've pondered forever "what if". I think the cars like this would have looked similar to modern BNSF covered hoppers. Plain jain with just a small herald in the upper corner. Like Ted said above cheap and simple albeit ugly most likely. The few remaining big railroads seem to have a similar scheme on covered hoppers or coal hoppers. If you have a few maybe at least one a different scheme to look older or newer. the Crisco frisco hoppers showed they were ready for a new font.
    I have always though too about the next diesel scheme, if it had happened. I figured it would have been very close to the demo scheme for what ever model they bought into. Since the first two schemes were demo based. Not just keep going with the orange and white which had been the demo scheme for EMD and GE at once. I also envision if they had gotten big instead of the BN. Eventually they would have taken over the Santa Fe. Maybe C&NW to take northern coal and grain loads which could add another paint scheme. I picture units painted with the failed SP/SF Kodachrome font but SLSF on a scheme similar to the black GE demo scheme the AC 4400s wore.. Someday I will get around to painting some up. This is why I love your railroad Tom, and need to get off my butt and build one!
  6. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Thanks Steve all good ideas and thoughts.
    As I sit her looking at this again. The aluminum covered hoppers (cement loading) had a black/White background coonskin with "Ship it on the Frisco".
    Like these;
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  7. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom -
    FYI, assuming those are the Atlas models, they are indeed models of ACF cars. The cylindrical design was ACF's very first version of their later immensely popular ACF CenterFlow covered hopper designs.
    Our experience with solids that were hygroscopic (i.e., they absorb moisture and will cake up in the car) was that the ACF CenterFlows emptied better than the straight side Pullman-Standard designs.
    We made and sold in bulk several products that were hygroscopic. One, tetrapotassim pyrophosphate, TKPP, was so hygroscopic it could not be shipped in bulk, other than in a 60% solution. Put a small pile of the dry product on a table, come back in an hour or so, all you have left is a puddle of TKPP solution.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  8. mike_newton

    mike_newton Member

    Howdy Tom,
    I voted for the F R I S C O. I think the Frisco would have stayed with that lettering. Although, they did just put the SLSF on the Pullman-Standard green hoppers but that was because of the impending merger. You don't have that situation. One thing I did notice on Mike Condren's website was a gray Pullman-Standard hopper with the FRISCO lettering using the font of the 100 ton black coal hoppers. Just a thought.

  9. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Thanks Ken for the correction and additional info, always glad to have your input.

    Thanks Mike, I see what you are referring to.

    I am surprised to see the number of votes for the Red logo.
  10. Hey Tom, what about using the font that is on the side of the diesels in black?
    gjslsffan likes this.
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Not a correction Tom, just a bit of added information. The cylindrical car was really pretty good, but ACF got even better performance and better capacity with lower cost from the later CenterFlow design.

    There is a good booklet available on eBay if you can find one - the original is long out of print - from "Freight Cars Journal" Monograph #2: "A History of the ACF Center Flow", by Erik Neubauer, 1987. I did a lot of work with ACF on cars we were buying (really leasing, after we had them built; they were tank cars, not covered hoppers). But, I got to know some of the ACF folks, and they were a font of knowledge for me on all the car types they built. Really good folks, a St Louis company. I usually visited them most often at their Milton, PA plant, where our t/c's were built. One of the lead engineers showed me his copy of Erik's book. I searched for several years on eBay until I found one listed and bought it. Lucky for me, it was a copy in very good condition.
  12. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Came up with some decals to try on one. We will see how it looks.
    meteor910 and modeltruckshop like this.
  13. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Thats an interesting thought Steve. But I am thinking Yellow wont show up very good on a grey background. Now Red maybe.
  14. I was thinking same font but printed in black. For that reason
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Still don't know what is wrong with the black FRISCO they were using.
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  16. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Here is the first one with the traditional livery. I added the "FRISCO" the side reporting marks, the "ACF CENTER FLOW", the "ownership subject to..... and the PPG stencil" upper left, the "open hatch before unloading car" and the end reporting marks that include the wheel size, spring make-up, the draft gear. With a little research
    I was able to use the number block, the Frisco would have used IMHO. I was gonna use a BLT 6-85 but there was already an OD 10-73 here. On future one I may erase the LD LMT , LT WT and OD date, to use the more traditional LD LMT, CAPY, LT WT, BLT info.
    Anyway a little progress.

  17. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Anyone know - is the Athearn car based on the old Ramax ACF two-bay Center Flow covered hopper kit?
  18. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Good question Ken.
  19. mike_newton

    mike_newton Member

    I took this picture last night of an Intermountain 2 Bay next to a Bowser 100 ton. This is a poor attempt at trying to describe how the 100 ton FRISCO lettering in black may look on the 2 bay.

    gna, Sirfoldalot, gjslsffan and 2 others like this.
  20. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    "Crisco Frisco"
    gjslsffan likes this.

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