Last run

Discussion in 'Passenger Operations' started by frisco1522, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I was asked when the last run of the St. Louis-Springfield passenger service was made. I have it somewhere, but it's still packed away somewhere.
    Somehow, May of 1967 comes to mind.
    Anyone out there know the date?
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    May 13 (I wonder if it was a Friday), 1967. Number 1 was powered by 2020 and an unknown sister.
  3. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Thanks Karl,
    I knew someone out here would know. I took pictures of it, but most of that stuff is still packed away.
  4. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Karl, Don - I assume SLSF 2020 was in orange/white dress (ugh!) at that time?

  5. qaprr

    qaprr Member Supporter

    See page 49 of "Frisco In Color" by Louis A Marre & Gregory J. Sommers
  6. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    On May 13, 1967, the 2020 is still in scheme FR-P4b.

    The number boards are black numerals on a white background.

    This poses an interesting question. With only 5-6 months of passenger service remaining, why would the Frisco repaint to O/W the 2020?

    My father claims that the Frisco attempted to use the E-8's in freight service. He says that several test runs were made, but were deemed a failure. I don't have any proof to support this claim. I'd love to see a photo, if such a thing actually happened. I would have thought that these engines were so poorly suited to freight service that the Frisco would have been nuts to even experiment with such a notion......two normally aspirated prime movers per unit, A1A trucks, and 85 mph gearing just don't make for an ideal freight locomotive.

    Any thoughts or theories?
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2011
  7. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Chalk up another moral victory for steam locomotion. A 1500-class Mountain looks just at home on the head-end of a long FFF as it does easing a first-class train alongside a platform.

    Alas, my feelings are sentimental and not grounded in anything empirical. I, too, will be eager to see other thoughts on why the E8s were apparently so poorly suited for freight service.

    I know that some of the road freight units sporting number boards with black numbers-on-white were rebuilt by ICG's Paducah Shops. I can't recall if that was also the case with the E-units?
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2011
  8. pbender

    pbender Member Supporter

    I THINK I"ve seen a photo of 2020 with those numberboards prior to the O/W paint... now I'm just trying to remember were...

    2017 and 2022 were apparently also painted this way at the same time.

    The other question is why only paint half of the fleet of E-units...which is what the Frisco kept in running order for the last 6 months of passenger service...

  9. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    A pre O/W 2020 with blk on white number boards may be seen in the Aug '67 issue of Trains, p. 11.

    Trains 101 and 102 required 3 trainsets, which would mean 6 units on the road. No doubt back-ups were kept, perhaps in KC, Springfield, Memphis, or Birmingham to protect the train. BTW 2020 O/W and 2006, in the cigar band scheme, did the honor with the last run of 102. I rode 2019 on 101 the day after Thanksgiving, 1967, and she was still in a badly faded cat whisker livery. The trailing unit was 2006.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2007
  10. arkrail

    arkrail Member Supporter

    Can someone provide more information about this citation from this Jan 20, 2007 message? I assume that the Western Manuscript collection mentioned is the one at UofM-Rolla. I have their "Guide to Historical Records of the Frisco", but it only lists the numerous subsidiary companies whose corporate records are held by UofM.

  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    This document has disappeared from this web site. I have searched for it on numerous occasions.
  12. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Nuts. I have removed the broken link from my previous post. If I can get my act together, I may have saved a copy and burned to disc - I hope. If so, I can try to re-post at some point.

    Best Regards,
  13. Kenneth

    Kenneth Member

    The mention of last runs adds to a big question we have in our club. We have seen it posted that May 13, 1967 was the last time a passenger train stopped at our depot in Webster Groves (The Oklahoman). The father of one of our former members worked for the Frisco in the maintenance department and was located in our depot. He swears that the last passenger train to stop there was in October 1968. Does anyone have confirmed information for either date? Maybe the train in 1968 was a special? We don't want to keep telling our visitors something if it is not correct.

    Ken Rimmel
    Big Bend Railroad Club, Inc.
  14. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    The last regularly scheduled passenger trains, The Oklahoman, called on Webster Groves on May 13, 1967. I can't speak to extras or other special movements that may have occurred after that. By the second week of December 1967, the Frisco was freight only.
  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    Karl - I take it then that The Southland's last run was in the 2nd week of December, 1967. I knew it ran several months longer than did The Oklahoman, but was not sure of their final run dates.

    FYI, I have the printer's mylar color master for the attached ad used in the Frisco's October, 1965 public timetable to announce the realignment of passenger service into these two trains. I have it framed on my office wall. It was given to me by Charlie Duckworth of the Missouri Pacific HS years ago. The four trains met each day at Springfield around 2:00pm-3:00pm, so passengers could interchange between them to travel any legs of the Frisco "X", i.e., a passenger from, say, Oklahoma City could switch if need be to the train to go to St Louis, Kansas City or Memphis (if I'm reading the PTT correctly).


    Attached Files:

  16. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    Trains 101 and 102 left their respective points of origin on Dec 8, 1967.


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