Hi, everyone. I just received one of Athearn's new GATC 2600 Airslide Hoppers - Frisco #42253 - and I'd like to get started weathering it. Here's my question: What loads would this car have carried besides cement? Did the Frisco use these for flour or other bulk items? I've found a lot of great prototype photos that show streaks running down the sides, so I assume that's cement, but I haven't found a listing anywhere of other possible loads for this car. My thanks if you have any info. - Bruce PS - I just stumbled across this graphic that maybe shows what the "air slide" is ... can anyone verify?
Bruce - Your graphic shows the idea behind the "AirSlide" design. Compressed air is introduced in between the lading material and the slope sheets of the discharge troughs. This somewhat aerates the lading and greatly decreases the reluctance of the material to flow out the discharge nozzles during unloading. Notice the pipes on the bottom of the AirSlide car for the aeration process. Fine powders were the main lading materials to benefit from an AirSlide. In a normal covered hopper, they often bridge up over the discharge gates and all flow stops. The remedy then is to start beating the hoppers with a sledge hammer. Damage from this is seen on many covered hoppers. Flour, cement, titanium dioxide, and other powdered chemicals would be typical loads for an AirSlide. We shipped fine powdered phosphates in them. Usually these materials would be white or light gray (cement), so that is the color to use for weathering. But, I guess carbon black would also be a candidate for an AirSlide. The rule is to use a regular covered hopper if you can, as the AirSlide is a specialty car - there were not that many of them, and they were more expensive to purchase and use. You also need to provide compressed air at the unloading site. I've heard that some AirSlides had a compressor on them, and all you had to do was provide electricity, but I never saw one. We always had air at our unloading docks. There was, of course, always a sledge or two out there as well! Some materials have a tendency to cake in the summer humidity, and even an AirSlide or a PD car struggles a bit with that. The only remedy then is to start pounding on the car. Ken
Thanks, Ken - that's really helpful. Do you know ... how did they ensure that a flour car was only used for that purpose? Would they have marked on the car side, or maybe indicated on the waybills? I would expect this could be a challenge in the days before computerized car dispatching. I've seen ballast cars marked for such service, as well as auto parts cars - and I know many of these have AAR codes that help distinguish their use, too. And I know some GACX cars were painted for grain elevator companies and such. - Bruce
Bruce - Yes, many of the specialty cars, like an AirSlide, were in dedicated service, back and forth between the same shipping point (the supplier) to the same receiving point (the customer). The cars were so marked. Thus, there was little chance of something else getting in there such that future shipments would be contaminated, and that the car would need to be thoroughly cleaned. Most of our shipments I mentioned were food grade chemicals. All the hatches and discharge gates were sealed whenever the car was in transit, full or empty. We did open them up for inspection before reloading, and often did wash them out if a lot of material was still in the car. These chemicals were water soluble, so a water wash out was very effective. You wouldn't have to be quite as careful for things like cement or carbon black, but in most cases the cars would still be assigned to specific shipping point(s). We also had several fleets of tank cars on the same basis - dedicated to specific shipping points back and forth. Ken
Great stuff Ken and Bruce. Almost all of these these hoppers had a bracket welded to the sides of the compartments that held some sort of vibrator that was supposed to help in the unloading process. But I don't know how well they worked, like Ken has said, you do see a lot of sledge hammer marks on some of these cars, almost like someone was quite frustrated and used the sledge to relieve some stress. Another thing you see quite often on the bottom gates is wire, seems to be wound around the winding mechanism that opens the bottom gates. I know of this as I have walked my share of trains when these wires drop down and set off a drag alarm. Thanks Tom Holley
Yeah, Tom is correct, I failed to mention the portable vibrators that could be mounted on the sides of the LO's discharge hopper gate outlets by sliding their mounting foot down into the brackets on the sides of the hopper discharge above the gates. These things worked pretty well on solids that were, for whatever reason, reluctant to flow out of the car. They vibrated the whole hopper and made a heck of a racket, but they often worked, and did not damage the car. But, when the material in the car was caked up, the sledge was called upon, along with driving a rod down into the lading through a top hatch and using leverage to try to break up the caked material. We had one material, a granular detergent builder product, that was very prone to caking in the summer, which often wound up being one completely solid 180,000 lb particle in a 100 ton bulk hopper car! When that happened, the customer would usually send the car back and we would have to try to get the stuff out, grind it up again, reheat it to dry it out, and hopefully be able to sell it again (not always). Not fun! Many sledges were used - I'm glad our car fleet was entirely MP/CEI cars and not SLSF's! (Showing my bias!) Ken ps - FYI, I have an old Ramax 2-bay ACF CenterFlow model that I built years ago but never finished and decorated. It's not the correct ACF "CF" version for the Frisco, so I've decided to finish it off as a C&EI car in our fleet as I describe above. It's still not totally correct for the MP/CEI prototype, but it's close enuf. I finished it off a few months ago, painted it, and it is now at the top of the pile for the decal shop. I'm going to use the Herald King C&EI decal set for this car, and plan to beat up the discharge hoppers to reflect the use of the sledge hammers! Should be a fun car to have in the collection. We had both two-bay and three-bay ACF CenterFlows in our fleet - all either MP or CEI, all in dedicated service for this one product to one customer from only one of our plants.
Great stuff Ken, Always glad to hear from someone who actually knew some of these details of operation. hhhmmm what are your ideas on modeling the hammer hits? Tom Holley
Tom - I started the C&EI decal work on the Ramax ACF 2-bay CenterFlow last night ..... first modeling work I have done in over six months. Golly! So far, it is looking good. I was a bit worried as this is possibly the very first Herald King decal set I ever bought - probably well over 15-20 years old, but they are going on fine with the help of MicroSet and MicroSol, plus some TLC by me. I'm thinking I'll just add some rustmarks to the discharge hoppers to simulate the damage from the hammers. Ken
Another loading would be diatomaceous earth filter medium. A wonderful discovery was made that a bit of moisture in the D. E. would lower the soluble iron content. Consequently, the cars (SP reporting mark) had damp D. E. powder (less than 1 to 2% water by weight) in them. As they traveled through the hot desert though, the moisture would migrate as vapor from the center of the load and condense on the inner surfaces as they cooled at night. Powder right by the gates would have lots more moisture and be difficult to remove. Hammering was a frequent procedure despite the additional use of the vibrator. I am not sure these cars were true Airslide cars. They fluidized the powder with air up through the center of the gates and this pressurized the car to drive the powder out to the airveyor system. Each car had gauges and relief valves to assure there was no more than 5 psig over pressure in the car. Diluted rust paint on a tiny Q-tip (if there is such a thing) sounds like a good start to simulate hammer strike points. The actual dent is more of a challenge. Could one use a light, momentary touch with a round rotary file on a Dremel Tool to get the dent? I probably would not want to do that to a $40 model! George
George - The car system you describe sounds like a PD covered hopper (pressure differential). In it, the lading is fluidized by compressed air as you describe and then air-veyed out through the hopper bottoms. These cars are indeed built to withstand perhaps a few psig's of pressure. There is no significant pressure build-up in an Airslide car. In an airslide, the interface between the lading and the discharge hopper chutes is aerated at low pressure (inches of water, not psig's), thus allowing the lading to air-slide out of the chute. Clever name, eh? The Airslide system was invented in the early 1950's by the Fuller Company. Most, if not all, of the Airslide covered hopper cars were built by General American Car Co., and either ran with railroad owned markings or as various GAxX lease designations. The same concept is also used in various types of solid handling chutes and bins for material handling systems in manufacturing plants, etc. Ken
Ken, It is confounding to see decals that old, work that well, and I have some MS decals much newer that just go away. At the same time, my friend Bob had Floquil paint from years ago that mixed well, and you could hand brush the stuff and look great, stuff I got just 6-8 years ago already bad. It ain't right, that you guys got to play with all the good chemicals Tom Holley
Tom - Just remember, without chemicals, life itself is not possible! re MicroScale decals - they are my favorite because they are so thin, but that makes them more fragile as they age. MS has have some stuff (liquid decal film) you can spray on old decals to strengthen them, but I've never used it even though I have a bottle. MS decals work best with MicroSet and MicroSol as well. Ken
Well, I spoke too soon. Last night I added some of the long information decals that are on the side sill on the C&EI Ramax, and every one of them broke. One was so bad I had to discard it. Back to the drawing board. I'll need to increase my level of TLC - be sure the decal sits in the water bath long enough, put it on over a well wetted area of MicroSet, don't pull the decal into the correct position - push it, easy on the MicroSol, no padding, etc. Ken
Update: I had perfect results tonight with the C&EI Ramax CenterFlow. I successfully applied six more of the old Herald King C&EI decals with no breakage problems - all of them were difficult, long skinny decals, so I'm quite happy with the results. One side of the car is now complete. Looks good! The problem last night was me! I had just come from watching a very tense basketball game I cared about - KU vs KSU, and I was all hyped up. Rockchalk Jayhawk! - Jayhawks won, but I was a mess! When working with old decals, you have to be cool and calm. I wasn't. I was in a hurry, and tried to force the decals into position. Each of them broke, but I was able to recover and save all but one. Tonight I was better. Here's the correct procedure: 1) Let the decals soak in the water for 5-10 minutes, so they are ready to easily come off the paper backing. 2) Apply a thick puddle of MicroSet over the area where you plan to set the decal. 3) Slide the decal off the paper backing and on to the solution puddle by pushing it off the paper, not pulling it off (which is what I did last night, resulting in breaking the fragile decal film), using a long toothpick as a probe. 4) Using the long toothpick, gently position the decal correctly. 5) Let the MicroSet and the decal dry. 6) GENTLY coat the dry decal with MicroSol. I use a Testors 1/4" brush to apply the MS solvents. 7) Let the MicroSol dry. 8) GENTLY coat the decal again with MicroSol. 9) Let everything alone until tomorrow morning. Go enjoy an adult beverage or two. 10) Tomorrow, if necessary, bathe the dry decal in MicroSol again to eliminate any problems. That's the MicroSoft decal "application system" they taught me at a seminar at Walt's Hobby Shop in Cincinnati, OH in the Fall,1974. I was in too much of a hurry last night. I lost one decal. Bad! As I age, I'm afraid I'm losing some of my modeling skills. But, I can still do decal work with the best of them, as long as I do it in a relaxed fashion. I was really upset with my "mess up" last night. I'll have to obtain another Herald King set to replace the decal I lost, plus I still have both ends and the other side to do. Ken
I appreciate your tips, Ken. I've only attempted decals a couple of times, and never successfully. Your long soak time will be something I'll try next time. Congrats on your success ... Can you post a photo of the results? - Bruce
Ken, I detect that there may not have been sufficient calming fluid employed last night before beginning work on the decals. The Glenfiddich company makes some nice stuff that works real well for me. Soaking time is important...
Bruce - I'll certainly post a pic or two of the Ramax C&EI ACF CenterFlow when (and if) I get it done successfully! Ken
Keith - Aye, Laddie - There were ample decal setting and solvent solutions available, but a definite shortage of calming fluids involved with last night's activities. I rectified that tonight. The Glenfiddich is indeed a nice dram, though my personal preference is The Glenmorangie. I learned last September while vacationing in Scotland that The Glenmorangie is the #1 selling single malt in Scotland. They are the experts - works for me! I also, of course, use significant quantities of MicroSet and MicroSol fluids while in the decalling mode, but last night proved they do not clam me much at all; certainly not after another nerve-racking KU game! Somehow, we will survive! K (still soaking)
Ahh yes, I need to convince the "one who must be obeyed" that calming fluid is indeed an essential nectar to the succesful completion of almost any project. As almost any project attempted without said fluid is hardly worth finishing or even worthy of beginning or even honorable mention. So Ken, this The Glenmorangie warrants further investigation, perhaps some sort of local approval process should be considered. Tom Holley (soaking)
Microscale makes a decal protective fuild( I have forgotten the name), you just brush it on old decalks, let it dry, and use the decal as usual, no need for a long soak which will not fix old decals.
