Frisco full diners

Discussion in 'Heavyweight Cars' started by tmfrisco, May 2, 2016.

  1. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I am modeling a heavyweight Frisco full diner, but I have been unable to find any photo to support the car I am building. I started this car (along with several others) over 25 years ago and have recently gotten interested in completing them. The car I started with is a Santa Fe diner made by AHM, and I have filled in the upper small windows of the six large windows in the dining section of the car. I am building it complete with interior and am too far along to change course now. I started this project before I had any detailed knowledge of the Frisco diners. My car will have a clerestory roof and six windows in the dining section. I have only seen five windowed diners with ac ducts added to the roofs in the few pictures I have found of Frisco diners. Does anyone know if the Frisco had any diners with the six large windows in the dining section and a clerestory roof? If no car existed, I will model a car that is realistic if not real. I have painted the roof, interior, and exterior of the car and will paint the underbody in the next few days. I have already made the bulkheads, refrigerators, and a full kitchen painted silver to simulate stainless steel. I also have the tables and chairs ready to install once I decide on a carpet. Thanks, for any help.

    Terry
     
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Many years ago, I did the same thing with an AHM car. Used More Classic Trains and the car diagrams as reference materials. I am away from home at the moment and I will cite chapter and verse upon my return.
     
  3. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Terry the AHM Santa Fe diner would be close to the three Frisco diners built by Pullman. The numbers were 641-642-643. 641 had roof ducts, but the other two had clestory/monitor roofs. The main difference between the SF and Frisco cars, is the Santa Fe underbody channel. I've modeled those cars in N scale and trimmed away the underbody channel (Both HO and N cars were made by Rivarossi). After the underbody channels are trimmed, the cars are very close to the Frisco diners, especially if the transom windows are covered like you've done. The Rivarossi/Pullman cars have the six dining area Windows per side. The other Frisco diners built by AC&F have five Windows and a vestibule in the dining area. I don't know how the d****d private message business works on here, but if you'll send me a regular email, I'll send you some photos. I probably won't reply until morning.

    Tom

    Email: tag6120(at)att(dot)net
     
  4. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks, Karl, I will look at the book you mentioned. Tom, I am sending you an email. This information is encouraging because, as I said, I have done quite a bit of work on the car and would like for it to be as accurate as possible.

    Terry
     
  5. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Tom, to send a private message click the inbox function on the main page and then click on start a new conversation. Enter who you want to talk to and type your message.

    Joe
     
  6. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks to Tom for sending pictures of the car and both Tom and Karl for reminding me of the picture in More Classic Trains page 255 which is the car I am modeling. I remember seeing that picture years ago and was the reason I decided to convert the AHM car into a Frisco car. Tom suggested trimming the underbody channel and adding width to the number board to make it more correct, but I will have to accept that difference as I have already painted it:whistle:. Thanks, again, to Tom for sending several pictures to me and especially the opposite side of the car that is pictured in the book. Now, I will look for more modern detail parts than what I have (old Walthers parts) to make it look even better.

    Terry
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  7. kenmc

    kenmc KenMc Frisco.org Supporter

    Terry,

    Here is a photo from Mike Condren's site of diner (full diner, I think) number 640, if that helps for reference.

    Ken McElreath

    [​IMG]
     
  8. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    I thoroughly enjoy the "add-on" Air Conditioning ductwork added on well after the fact. I'd have to guess that this is over the actual dining section, and that the galley area is an A/C free environment.

    Best Regards,
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  9. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken, this car has five windows in the dining section and four windows in the aisle beside the kitchen. The car I am modeling has six and three. As stated earlier, More Classic Trains page 255 shows the actual car with a couple of modification necessary to the model to accurately depict the car shown on that page. I agree that the ac ductwork is cool, but I am glad that I don't have to do that on the 642 or 643 cars.
    I have decided to trim the underbody channels and am still contemplating adding width to the number board as Tom pointed out to me in his email. The issue I have with the wider number board is that I will have to add to the top of the car on the ends also which will complicate the roof/end joint. I am still thinking about that modification.

    Terry
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  10. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

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  11. kenmc

    kenmc KenMc Frisco.org Supporter

    Just for grins, here is the AC work on an N&W diner that I built for the SR/N&W "Pelican" into Birmingham. It's essentially a big pipe with outlets into the clerestory roof. The reason it doesn't extend into the kitchen section is that the air was forced into the dining section and then exhausted through the kitchen.

    Ken McElreath

    HO passenger trains 020.jpg
     
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  12. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks, Karl, for the reference. That interior picture shows that the cars were first class all the way. I am curious if those cars were air conditioned somehow without the tell tale ductwork on the roof. On a side note, in that issue is an artist's drawing and construction photo of the new Tulsa Union Depot.
    Ken, cool picture, and your venetian blinds on the windows brings up another question I have had as to whether these cars had them. From the picture of the interior of the Frisco diner found in Karl's link above, it is clear that shades were installed as new, but I wonder if venetian blinds were ever retrofitted into the cars. I do have venetian blind decals and would use them if I can confirm they were used.

    Terry
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  13. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Car 641 had Waukesha AC
    Cars 642 & 643 had ice activated AC
     
  14. kenmc

    kenmc KenMc Frisco.org Supporter

    Venetian blinds seem to be a late 1930s thing, from the photos I have seen. A "very modern" thing, you know.

    I would suggest that the reason for car 641 having Waukesha AC was for the Texas Special and commonality with the MKT systems for maintenance and servicing purposes. The Frisco favored Ice Activated AC even on their 1200 series modernized coaches. I'm sure there were good reasons, like lower maintenance costs, for example. It's hard to break an Ice Activated system, with the only active component being a fan.

    Ken McElreath
     
  15. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I saw that in your email after I had posted here. Thanks for the plans. I guess all I would need to model the ice ac is ice bunkers. In Chris's picture of the 640 above, two double ice bunkers can be see on this side of the car. I have some extra ice bunkers from painted/unlettered Branchline cars I have. Out of curiosity, how did the cooled air get into the ice cooled cars since they did not have the roof ductwork to pipe through the cars?

    Terry
     

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