Slag, Chatt, Ballast colors and souces

Discussion in 'Maintenance of Way' started by gjslsffan, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Lets try this again, thanks Terry for pointing out that rather important missing info.
    Was with "she who must be obeyed", a few days ago at a pet shop and noticed this White-ish rock in 5-10-20lb bags.
    so I bought a 5lb bag of white aquarium rock for $2.99 It is already washed for use with fish, so virtually no -200.
    I will guess about 1/3 of the bag is useful, This pile is a sample shaken with 50 – 200 screens.

    The pictures were taken in Macro about 1-2 inches away from the pile, in indoor light.
    Might be better to put some down on a track to see how it looks then.

    What do you think?
    Thanks
    Tom Holley
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2012
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  2. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Thanks Terry, Take a look now.
    Thanks
    Tom Holley
     
  3. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Certainly inexpensive enough - like to see some on a track for a better judgement.
     
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  4. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    I agree Sherrel, will put some down on weathered track and take another pic and send it. Looking at it thru a magnifying class like macro is not doing it justice. Right now it looks too much like marble to me, we'll see what it looks like later.
    Thanks Sherrel
    Tom Holley
     
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  5. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I'd be curious myself- the part of the Frisco I'm modeling used quite a bit of chat for ballast, and in some places I'd swear they planted grass seed as well.......
     
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  6. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    The Frisco used to buy the lead mine trailings for about $10.00 per car since they owned the NEO and serviced the pitcher lead mine at Miami, OK. As Bob pointed out above, the Frisco called it chat not ballast, and they had chat cars not ballast cars. The trailings of course had lead in it, so when it was put down, the lead tended to act as glue. I do not know if it was used all over the system, but I know for sure it was used on the Northern division at the very least.
     
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  7. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Chatt, was used through out the Frisco. I don't know about the lead content. Most of it that I dumped was fairly clean. Granite ballast, was far too expensive for the Frisco. A lot, not all of the green you see is from leaky cars. Wheat, oats and others leak out of grain cars, the spring rains and growth. That really came to light, when I went Roadmaster to Vancouver, Wa. It was really green, course it rains nearly all the time. The chief engineer of KCS, nicknamed the railroad "The Green Railroad" Railroads spend a lot, but have limited success with weeds.
    William Jackson
     
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  8. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Additional information about the chat source may be found in this thread. I am not certain about any adhesive qualities that lead (actually the mineral Galena, PbS) might add. It is a very brittle and soft mineral, so that large fragments would break down very quickly. Chat which is chert (crypto-crystalline quartz) is relatively hard and breaks into very angular grains/particles, which create high levels of internal friction; a desirable quality for ballast to possess.

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/the-semple-pile.1327/#post-7342
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2018
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  9. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    On the River Division, the chat was crushed limestone that came from quarries along the west bank of the Mississippi. Some came from the Healy Crushed Stone Co. (later Federal Materials) in Cape Giradeau, but a lot came from further up river, closer to St Genevieve. I know that around the Springfield area, a lot came out of the quarries there. Ron White (rwwhite51) and Louis Griesemer sell ballast for model railroads that is crushed limestone from Lou's quarry (mine) under the old Frisco main in Springfield.
     
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  10. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    My fahter would do work train service, and he was the one that told me the chat off the NEO contained lead becuase it was lead mining trailings.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2013
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  11. john

    john FRISCO.org Supporter

    I would think that, at least in the "early days," the cheapest suitable, regionally available material would be used. This probably resulted in differences in different regions of the system. The 1918 ICC valuation gives the following Central Division information. "Practically all of the ballast is cinders from Fort Smith, Jenson and the coal mines (along the Mansfield Branch) and slack and slah from the mines. It is fairly good condition although rather thin in a great many places." Later on when this almost free material was no longer available, crushed rock would have been substituted.

    John
     
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  12. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    John, that was true to some respect well into the 70's and 80's. When limestone was all you had it was used. I have put lots of it down. Small jobs, like crossings or about anywhere you could get a truck. Limestone quickly broke down, it was not very good. Some railroads stockpile ballast for that usage, they just empty a car with a backhoe. FEC and some others just dump a air dump at crossings, then you can load the extra for other use. A air dump load, at the side of a crossing or end of a bridge would make a good addition to a layout.
    William Jackson
     
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  13. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Well, here is the latest, for me, many hundreds of miles away from the Limestone quarries in MO, AR, ect.

    I was not agreeable to paying the outfit from Arizona so much $$ for chatt. It turns out a very good friend of mine in "Happy Valley" and an avid N scaler, Dustin Orth, was willing to lend me a one man rock crusher for a bit. I happen to own a set of shaker screens 1/4" - minus 200.
    First of all, a one man rock crushing operation, has a bit of an idiot for a boss, laborer and customer.
    Seeing as how I represented all, I decided to proceed.
    Managed to find a decorative rock supplier here that has limestone in stock. Now I understand the limestone here maybe a completely different product than my Frisco Nation may enjoy.
    We decided to "endeavor to persevere".
    Let me tell you, that if you want to get rich crushing rock with a trailer hitch mounted crusher, you need to plan waaaaay ahead.
    I spent 2 days off and on running this outfit and after a bottle of Oxygen, ended up with 3 quarts of useable material, which at this point makes that outfit in Arizona the way to go, if you value your time at all.
    But I gotta say, there is absolutely no substitute for using real rock/Limestone for Chatt. It acts, looks like, and behaves like it is supposed to. As opposed to the Walnut chips.
    Anyway, A little progress report.
    Let me know what you think.
    Tom Holley
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    Looks like your effort is paying off. Looks good. Are those concrete ties?
     
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  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    For those looking for Missouri crushed limestone, I recommend contacting Ron White rwwhite51@sbcglobal.net, or Louis Griesemer louisg@sbcglobal.net, both Frisco modelers in Springfield, Mo. They bag and sell genuine Missouri crushed limestone from Griesemer's quarry (that supplied the Frisco) for much less than that Arizona business sells their stuff.
     
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  16. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Keith, is the stuff sized for HO and N?


    (ANSWER FROM KEITH; Yes)
     
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  17. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    First of all - you're post gave me a good laugh this morning.
    I am curious as to the 1/4 - 200: explain please.
    I would love to see a movie of how this contracption works (please ignore the spelling).
     
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  18. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    There are standard sieves which are used to grade granular material. The numbers specify the standard sieve number.

    http://www.wirecloth.com/howto/convert/ussieve.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2013
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  19. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Thanks Jim
    Yep they are concrete ties. Atlas code 83 flex track.
    Tom Holley
     
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  20. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Whoa - a one man rock crusher! Who needs a gym membership when ya got that puppy.

    Hmmmm, my neighbor has a tree splitter - I wonder . . . . .

    I sure hope I can find this thread next year, when I should be ready to do some ballasting. I will have to drop an e-mail to Ron or Louis as my rebuilt shoulder wouldn't stand up to doing it myself. But then, there is that splitter next door . . . .
     
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