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ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

New HO Intermountain Alternate Standard 2-Bay Hoppers

Discussion in 'New Products' started by FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Dec 27, 2011.

  1. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Intermoutain Railway Co has announced a totally new offset hopper, the USRA Alternate Standard 2-Bay Hopper. This car will be offered in two end variations (straight-end and arch-end versions) for their initial delivery and four more end variants will follow in future announcements. Suggested retail price is $38.95 .

    The IRC Alternate Standard 2-Bay Hoppers are packed with 135 separate parts, 45 of which are wire or brass parts. InterMountain indicates they have done everything to make this model purely prototypical and as highly details as any HO model ever produced.

    As most of us are aware the Frisco had several thousand of these cars predominantly purchased from Pullman Standard with one order coming from Mt. Vernon Car Co. I have had a discussion with Rick McClellan concerning these and he has a very complete and descriptive article about them which I have asked him to post additional information from. There seems to have been at least 4 different paint schemes over the years and after Rick posts his information I will be putting up a poll as to which paint scheme you as a group would like me to submit to Intermountain to produce. Stay tuned.
     
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Dec 27, 2011
    #1
  2. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2011
    Rick McClellan, Dec 27, 2011
    #2
  3. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Great! Always good to see additional Frisco prototype cars coming. Interesting that IRC is treading into Kadee territory with this car. The two firms have traded shots in the past about outdoing each other. See the 50ft PS1 boxcar as a good example.

    Look forward to seeing Rick's information. These are very nice looking cars, and were used in great numbers so there is always room for a few on any layout's roster. This car has been discussed in detail in the early issues of RPCyc.

    Hmmm - four schemes I can recall are: 1) black with a small, open coonskin, 2) red oxide with the black background coonskin (best looking by far), 3) red oxide with a small, open coonskin, and 4) red oxide with a large, open coonskin. There also was the one-off car done up at Springfield with the "Frisco Fast Freight" logo, I think it was black with white lettering.

    There also was the earlier scheme with the small Frisco Lines logo as modeled by Accurail, but I don't think any of these cars got that scheme, at least I've never seen a pic.

    Ken
     
    meteor910, Dec 27, 2011
    #3
  4. Friscotony

    Friscotony Member

    Ken, do you have any concept of when you version #2 was started. I assume that that is the one with the large coon. Do you know if prior to the 60's if any ever got repanted red with a small black coon emblem??

    Thanks,

    Tony
     
    Friscotony, Dec 27, 2011
    #4
  5. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tony -

    I'll have to research this question with my photos and diagrams - don't have time to do that tonight. Perhaps the info Rick is going to reference will have the answer. I'll post what I can find in the next day or two. Things really busy here right now.

    If you can believe the "Built" dates on the models (not!) that were supposedly based on pics, the Atlas car in Scheme 1) shows a BLT date of 7/48, and the Kadee car in scheme 2) shows a BLT date of 5/48. Perhaps they were concurrent.

    Ken
     
    meteor910, Dec 27, 2011
    #5
  6. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Per the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #1 copyright 1997, there were six orders of these cars.

    SLSF 90000-90499 500 cars built by PS 7-48
    SLSF 90500-90799 300 cars built by MV 5-48
    SLSF 90800-91599 800 cars built by PS 5-49
    SLSF 91600-92099 500 cars built by PS 7-53
    SLSF 92100-92399 300 cars built by PS 4-54
    SLSf 92400-92899 500 cars built by PS 7-57

    The Railway Prototype Cyclopedia shows #90249 in all black with the small, centered white outline coonskin with FRISCO inside (No FRISCO LINES).
     
    Rick McClellan, Dec 27, 2011
    #6
  7. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    This is one of my Frisco photos I scanned in showing #92462 from the last order in 1957.

    I will keep looking for more photos as I get time.
     

    Attached Files:

    Rick McClellan, Dec 27, 2011
    #7
  8. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Intermountain evidently supplied dealers with artist's renderings and drawings (pictures 1,2,and 3) of the cars in the first release they are offering. If this is the only , and I stress only, version they are going to produce it doesn't match the pictures that Rick has posted of the Frisco car. They announcement says that they are planning four more end variants in future releases but the difference that jumps out to me is the spacing of the braces and rivets on the side of the car. The Kadee car is also pictured (#4) below and is a perfect match to Rick's pictures. Kadee lists their product as AAR "Standard" while Intermountain is advertising theirs as USRA "Alternate". While discussing this with Rick, I believe he said his book referenced the Frisco cars as being the "Alternate" design.

    If this information is true two possible conclusions can be drawn:

    (1) The Intermountain car, as they are stating, is a brand new design that has never been offered before.
    (2) The Frisco may not have purchased cars of this design.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2011
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Dec 28, 2011
    #8
  9. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    True, there were two different versions of the AAR 2-Bay, Offset Side 50/60 ton hopper cars - the AAR "Standard" design and the AAR "Alternate Standard" design, plus there were a few other odd variations. All of the Frisco's cars, as listed by Rick McClellan above, were of the AAR Standard design.

    The new IRC model is of the AAR "Alternate Standard" design, and thus is not appropriate for this series of Frisco cars. Too bad, as it looks like a nice model. C&O was the biggest user of the Alternate Standard design.

    The differences were mainly with the nine angle gussets along the top side of the car where the offset side leans in. The "Standard" design had these gussets unevenly spaced along the top chord of the car, while the "Alternate Standard" design had the nine gussets evenly spaced. The crease in the side sheets at each end of the car that folds the offset side up into the car corners is also a bit different in each design. Look at the differences in the pics Bob posted above - compare the side gussets and the upper corners of the offset side sheets between the ATSF car (Alternate Standard) and the Kadee Frisco car (Standard).

    Rick mentioned the very good article on both of these designs that is in RPCyc #1, authored by Ed Hawkins. FYI, RPCyc #1 is still available, one of the few early issues of RPCyc that still is. This was Ed's and Pat Wider's first RPCyc volume, and they printed too many of them. They are up thru Volume 23 now, and most of them below the mid-teens are sold out.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2011
    meteor910, Dec 28, 2011
    #9
  10. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Intermountain is indeed producing the C&O hopper in the first run. Six road #'s in the arched end version. Other road names are Santa Fe, Montour, Nickel Plate Road, Erie, Northern Pacific, Wheeling & Lake Erie, and Clinchfield.
     

    Attached Files:

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Dec 28, 2011
    #10
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I think I'll get one or two of the C&O cars just to have examples of the Alternate Standard design. I have a lot of two-bay hoppers - well over twenty - perhaps too many, but as far as I know, I have none of the alternate standard design!

    One to look out for, if IRC makes it, would be M&StL 60001-60129 (odd numbers only), all Alternate Standard design cars. M&StL was a nice railroad, it eventually became part of the C&NW, but they numbered their cars and locomotives strangely.

    Too bad this car does not fit the Frisco's roster - it looks like a very nice car. Does it come with a coal load?

    Ken
     
    meteor910, Dec 28, 2011
    #11

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