Just for the heck of it, I just bought a MKT Atlas RS-3. Does anybody know of any instances, other than passenger service, where MKT Diesel locomotives ran on the Frisco in freight service? Did they have any thru service, any power swapping, any power loans, any trackage rights, etc, where SLSF and MKT power would be seen on the same freight train? I gotta do something with this RS-3! Ken
Depending on if you're proto or free lance, but how about a little stub end branch that serves a grain elevator or some such at the other end of a town that's on your main line Frisco? That's how the Missouri Pacific's presence in Springfield was. Big Frisco shop town but the MP switched a few industries with a little black 44 ton center cab. Tom
Beside the Texas Special Route, there were several places where it was common to view the MKT and Frisco side by side. The MKT had trackage rights on the Frisco between KC and Paola, KS. During the latter years the MKT got into Joplin with trackage rights between Columbus and Oswego. The Frisco crossed the Red River via trackage rights over the MKT bridge. Given the poor condition of Katy power, the MKT tended to be a renter of power rather than lender of power. I remember CGW and Wabash covered wagons on MKT trains. The Frisco and MKT tended to be competitors, and I don’t think that they would pool power. If MKT and Frisco power were ever in the same freight consist it was most likely an ad hoc event. One option might be to use your new Alco RS-3 as a transfer locomotive, and schedule a daily transfer to the Frisco. The Katy had some Thrall-built cabooses in the 1-4 series that they used in transfer service.
Another obvious solution would be to model an SLSF/MKT interchange, with enough MKT trackage to let the RS3 run out of staging and swap cars around a few times per operating session. Or you could include some nearby MKT industrial or yard spurs, and have the Katy RS3 semi-permanently assigned there to handle the switching chores. Bradley A. Scott
I am not sure of the dates but the Katy had trackage rights from Oswego Kansas through Columbus and onto Joplin during the early 80's. There was even a tragic accident just west of Columbus on a curve where the Katy rear ended a Frisco train, killing the Frisco conductor. The MKT 222 was the lead engine and was totalled. It was taken back to Parsons and the 501 slug was made from it. Bob Wintle Parsons, Ks.
I remember Katy run through/detour trains coming down the Oklahoma Sub from Tulsa to OKC during 1979 after flooding on Katy tracks. The detour trains were pure Katy. Locomotives, rolling stock and caboose solid MKT. It didn't last but a few days until the washouts were repaired but the solid Katy trains stuck in my mind. Hope this helps, Steve.|-|
Hello: A little late to this one-but how about Frederick OK. The MKT and Frisco had a crossing with interchange. The best of both worlds! John WF TX
The Katy and the Frisco had a joint passanger run called the Texas Special out of St. Louis, Mo., which was supposed to be Frisco and Katy power combined but think from pictures i have that the Katy had most of the power on it.
The Frisco and the Katy shared motive power on the Texas Special, Trains #1 & 2 on both roads, evenly, 50-50. Same with the train sets. There were frequent substitutions of the E7's (SLSF 2000 & 2003, MKT 101 & 101A,C,etc) in the later years, with E8's, F's, and possibly PA's. In their later life, the Katy units were in bad shape. Ken
I guess I'm free lance cause I might be running my "main freight power lashup" with Mostly Frisco locomotives, but I can see a MP GP38-2 or red MKT GP40 thrown in there when I get a bigger booster for my DCC system.
In Denison, TX and Muskogee, OK (both Katy towns), Frisco had a presence- in Denison, it was just to the east of the Katy depot, while in Muskogee the Frisco crossed the Katy main at grade just south of downtown. It is plausible that you could have motive power from both roads at these locations at the same time. Also, back in 1980 Katy was rebuilding their mainline from KC south, and had to detour over parallel roads around the trackwork. I remember seeing a few Katy freights running thru Afton at this time (which was ironic, since Katy had also filed an objection to the BN/Frisco merger). And for real grins & giggles, I have Kodachrome of lots of Conrail and C&NW power and cabooses on the Katy at Vinita in December of that year. Not a single John Deere unit to be seen.....
The Katy used the Frisco line from Oswego to Columbus from 1978 to the UP merger due to the Katy Joplin Sub washing out and being torn up from Labette to Columbus. This is in Kansas. Also, remember that the Katy used the Frisco from Paola to Kansas City. John Chambers
If you look in Collias's Frisco Power, there's an Art Johnson shot of a MKT 4-6-2 at the Monett roundhouse.
Strip it down, put a GP18 long hood on it, detail it, paint it up in Frisco black & yellow or mandarin & white, and call it prototypical art! Anyhow, anyone here know if any Katy un-rebuilt RS3's would have ever made it through Carthage, MO on any reroutes before they were 'Christined' w/ EMD prime movers? Best regards, and thanks! -Pete
In the late 50s when Deramus arrived on the Katy he didn´t win a popularity contest. He closed the Katy´s general offices in St. Louis and moved the people to Dallas where the old Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad Company of Texas had maintained HQ there when they entered Texas from the North in the 1870s due to Texas laws of the period. He had come from the Chicago Great Western where 8 unit F unit consists were common! With so much Katy power on the deadlines due to the purchased power from so many builders when steam was retired and the parts inventory nightmare probably running short due to their current financial status then, Deramus sent Alco and Baldwin diesels to EMD for rebuilding with EMD power plants. To suppliment the power shortage Deramus leased power from several roads including the CGW and Wabash. It is rumored that even a set of Pennsy centapedes were part of the deal but they never rode on Kary rails, probably due to the deplorable track conditions where even BO boxcars on sidings derailed while standing still! Not to be confused with the Pennsy´s slogan on some of their boxcars, "Don´t Stand Me Still"...LOL I don´t know if there is proof to the big Pennsy diesels being ordered for a lease but it has been mentioned in some articals on the Katy´s problems of this period. Wonder if they made it to St. Louis if they did in fact make it to the west end of the Pennsy? Running power from any railroad on a layout can always be explanned away. Freelancing of course is the easiest. A generic scenic location with a layout based on capturing the spirit of the Frisco with leased power for any reason or performing interchange service with an other line. It is easy to set up a run through freight train with any other railroad and in the 60s the trend started to show up with Frisco cab units out west on the Santa Fe and Q Chinese Red and Harbormist geeps on the Rio Grande´s Moffat Tunnel route in the Colorado Rockies! When the trade-in programs started with the builders a lot of cab units were retained and leased out to railroads with power shortages. Precision Engineering Company (PECO) leased Katy F units to the Q subsidiary Colorado & Southern, GE leased Q grey carbody units to the Atlantic Coast Line and Rio Grande F units were sold to Penn Central with their "mating worms" herald stenceled on the side of the carbodies! The list goes on and on, the modelers choice is his to come up with a reason for the foreign power to show up on his or her layout. Remember too, if a Katy RS3 had been upgraded by Alco for example it most certainly could have been routed over the Frisco to reach home rails and in some rare cases the locomotives were "worked" in the trains of the railroad making the delivery! Prototype, freelance, whatever, the enjoyment of model railroading should remain most important. When that is lost the interest in the hobby will die. This should never happen! Joe Toth The Trinity River Bottoms Boomer
My Atlas Katy RS-3 (MKT 1551) just sits here. I never use it and have done nothing to it. It does run well with the Atlas Frisco GP7's, so some day I will probably add it to the active roster. Ken
Run a Frisco GP7 section with 6-8 freight cars and caboose ,then follow with a MKT RS3 with 6-8 freight cars and caboose. This is prototype for shared trackage and is modeled at the TWMRC. The Frisco and MKT were in competion so would have run separate train sets. One MKT rebuilt RS3M has survived. I have a Atlas model with RS3 cab and low nose forward and GP7 body behind the cab. If FriscoMike comes to the TWMRC on Monday I'll race his three Frisco Alcos with a MKT RS3, RS3M; and GP7. MKTJames
You could also model the junction at Tulsa, where Katy's Muskogee-Tulsa-Osage line crossed Frisco's Cherokee Sub at grade (and so did the Santa Fe and Midland Valley). This would also give you a reason to own a Santa Fe Geep in the zebra strile, and paint up a "Muskogee Roads" Geep as well.
