Lead Line Track Chart

Discussion in 'Salem Branch' started by Karl, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    After taking a closer look through chart, I noticed the curve from about A93.4-A93.6. It changes my opinion about the sharpest curve on the Frisco. At 11 deg-40 mins, it is sharper than the horseshoe curve on the Clinton Sub at Weaubleau, MO. I don’t know if it qualifies as a true horseshoe curve, since its delta is a mere 136 deg-12 mins. Note the tie comments. Because of the issues with the original concrete ties, one can see sections with wood ties, with concrete ties, and with a mix, where the concrete ties and wood ties were “interlaced”. Curves were held below 6 degrees on the new part of the line, but grades reached a hefty 1.84%.

    It will be sad to see line go.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Karl,
    What is "delta?"
    And... in feet, yards, whatever (terms a non-railroader can understand)... what was the radius of the tightest curve on the Frisco. I'm also curious about the location of the steepest grade between Memphis and B'ham? Greenwood Springs, MS?
    -Brandon
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2011
  3. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Delta equals the angle of intersection between two tangents. In other words, it is the angular portion of a complete circle made by the curve. A semi-circle has a delta of 180 degrees. The delta angle is not the same as the degree of curve. The manner in which the degree of curve is calculated is more easily shown by a drawing...will post one later. It is derived easily with a little high school trig.

    The sharpest curves on th Frisco were in the 10 to 11 degree range which are in the 500 radius ballpark. That is about 69 inches for a HO scale curve.

    Will check on the Memphis - Birmingham grade.
     
  4. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Wow, 69" radius. ...and that's the minimum! Excuse me while I go and tell my wife I need a larger room to have a truely 1:87 scale curve on my layout. HA!
     
  5. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Northbound from Greenwood, MP C624.7,the grade is 1.04%, which is not the steepest grade between Memphis and Birmingham. The steepest grade lies just south of Oakwood, AL; the northbound grade is 1.27%. Otherwise, between Benoit and Birmingham the line is like a roller coaster, and the grades reach 1.25%.

    See the attached pdf file, which provides a drawing and the basic curve formulae. In short, when a 100 foot chord transects a curve, the angle made by the two radius lines which are drawn to the curve center from their respective points of intersection with the curve is defined as the degree of curve.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. SteveM

    SteveM Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl, I haven't had a chance to verify it yet, but yesterday a modeler/railfan told me that to get radius, one divides 5760 by the curvature. That would validate your numbers, so maybe he's right. Dick's not really Frisco folk, but is the practically-official photographer for the Arkansas & Missouri. Maybe Andre has seen him around. Anyway, it's a factoid sort of thing one could make use of.
     
  7. wpmoreland719

    wpmoreland719 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    With regard to the "almost horseshoe" curve, it should be mentioned that this where the long forgotten Cherryvalley/Elayer line branched off. If you look on a Google satellite image, you'll notice a short trestle north of the Arneson lumber yard at the end of Frisco Street. This is approximately where the line branched off to the east, and although I couldn't find the roadbed on the satellite image, it's easy to spot in person. This line was originally about six miles in length. It served the boom town of Midland and the iron works that was located there until the Flood of 1898 destroyed everything. Neither the town nor the iron works were ever rebuilt. The Salem Branch was in such a state of disrepair around the Steelville area that there was talk of abandoning the whole line. Around 1953, the Cherryvalley line was cut back to Strumpf Charcoal (which was featured on "Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe" a few years back), leaving it only about one mile in length. I'm not sure exactly when the rest of it was pulled up, but I'm guessing sometime between 1970 and 1980. There's a lot of crossties still in the dirt, as well as a faded crossbuck at the Sanke Rd. crossing.

    The Salem Branch connected with a number of lighter branches during it's career, including the Cherryvalley branch, the Sligo and Eastern, the Dent-Phelps RR, the Condray branch, the Plank Iron Mines spur, and the Riverside Mines extension south of Salem. How ironic is it that the Sligo and Eastern section south of Viburnum to Bixby would lay abandoned for 40 years only to be rebuilt into a modern heavy hauler, then abandoned again after only 34 years of service.

    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.
     
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Steve, it looks like your friend may be off just a little bit. If I read the posted pdf file correctly, the formula for Radius is R=5730/D, where D is the curvature in degrees.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2011
  9. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl or group - Does anyone have the track charts showing the line from Cuba/Lead Jct to Salem, Mo when it still existed?

    Ken
     
  10. wpmoreland719

    wpmoreland719 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken,

    Somewhere I have the Wilbur Smith and Associates report on the Salem Branch from 1983. While not a track chart, it's very interesting in that it describes the condition of the line, including the sections of welded and jointed rail, rail weight, and tie and ballast condition. It also estimates the cost of rehabilitation ($550,000) and lists the shippers on the line (only two, Floyd Charcoal and Kerr-McGee in Salem). Roger Taylor was gracious enough to provide me with it about eight years ago.

    If you (or anyone else) are interested, I can probably dig it out and send you a copy.

    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.
     
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Pat!

    Ken
     

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