Hello Frisco Folks; I was in OKC at the train show this weekend and stopped by the Intermountain booth. I was there to let them know I don't own any N-scale engines made by them because they never ran any in Frisco livery. Well much to my suprise the man hands me a new flyer that has FP7 and F7Bs in Frisco Orange and white with 2 numbers each, in both HO and N-scale. So much for complaining on my part. The discussion I had was interesting and the fellow I was talking to told me a few things I wanted to pass on to this group. When Intermountain plans on doing a run of a roadname they do consult books and magazines to try and get road numbers and paint schemes right. I asked if they ever consulted any knowledgeable folks like the guys on this board. He said they didn't but would take any suggestions with the facts if they were offered. In our talk I told him that the Frisco had many diesel engines that were painted black and yellow that kept their original paint scheme for their entire lives and that would be the best scheme for ANY manufacturer to do since the time span would be the greatest. He agreed wholeheartedly and said if anyone could provide them with the actual roadnumbers for the units that were like this and any particulars (phases, modifications) they would be happy to do more Frisco. This is the first time I talked to a factory rep and didn't feel I was getting the "Agree with this guy and he will leave me alone" chat and he even wrote down in his book my suggestions. So if anyone has any pictures or roster information about black and yellow on F3s, F7s, FP7s or any other engines that Intermountains sells in either HO or N, please send them that info and we might get some more Frisco engines in a scheme that we all can enjoy. And be correct for all time periods. Dale Slechta
Dale - Good point. Many model RR manufacturers, but alas not all, do consult with RR expert groups and historical societies about details on their upcoming models. That might be a frustration for them, as all railroads had specific quirks that make it hard to satisfy everyone on a mass produced model. I'm not sure what Intermountain does. The recent release (Jan 2007) of the HO Intermountain FP7 and F7B in Frisco b/y colors is a good example. I'm sure they studied a few pics, and they got the FP7 fairly correct - given their needs to produce one mass produced model. For example, it, correctly, did not include a dynamic brake fan on the roof. But, they blew it on the F7B - it did include, incorrectly, a d/b fan. I called IRC to ask about how they could make such a mistake and their technical guy (can't remember his name) told me they did look at pictures. What they must have looked at were Frisco's F9B's, which did include d/b's. The F9B's were bought a few years after the FP7's, but perhaps IRC looked at F9B builders photos (the IRC paint schemes are the as built version) and missed that they were F9's, not F7's. The fellow was apologetic and sent me a bunch of non-d/b panels for the F7B's I bought, but that requires me to remove the old ones, paint the new ones, and install the new ones, which still bugs me. I also don't like IRC's shade of yellow and their lettering/numbering font, but that is an issue for another discussion. At least the manufacturers now recognize that there is a good market for Frisco models, because we are seeing more and more of the manufacturers do things in SLSF. More please! In my view, the need to fix up a fairly well done Frisco decorated model is better than having to start from scratch with an undec - in most cases. Ken
Dale, Did the flyer give any more information about release dates and the like? Also, what numbers are listed in the release? On antoher note, as an N-scale modeler, I would be happy if Intermountain would release the locomotives they have already released in HO scale in Frisco paint. I believe they have produced black and yellow FP7s, F7s and F3s in HO scale, but none yet in N. Paul
Well it's looks like Intermountain is no better than Con-Cor, Kato or Walthers regarding doing research for a model run! I already offered to GIVE IM photos and specs of Frisco FP-7's about a year ago as well as Katy FP-7's in both the as-delivered and "Deramus" paint schemes for their N scale runs!!! I was pretty much blown off by the "office guy" who said he'd "turn over" my offer for information to whoever was in charge of such stuff!!?! I was also at the St. Louis Prototype Modelers' meet this August and spoke to the IM guys there and asked them about N scale FP-7's in Frisco and Katy schemes and they said they didn't have any such runs planned (Which, BTW they'd already done in HO), but they would make a note of my inquiry. Why do we waste our time... Tom PS: Frisco FP-7's ran in the black and yellow "Cutworm" paint scheme many more years than they wore the awful mandarin and white colors!
Paul; The reservations are due by January 31 and the release date is July/August. The numbers on the announcement sheet are road number 43 on the FP7 and 118 on the F7B unit. This would be after the 1968 renumbering and both units lasted until 10/1974. No other road number information was given for the other numbers. Dale
Tom; The person you spoke to in August must of listened. The guy I talked to said they had several recent inquiries about doing Frisco and doing it right. He also said that feedback, whether good or bad is how they judge if they are on the right track or not. If these N scale FP7s and F7Bs fit your time frame I would say buy them so they know someone is supporting them with their purchase. I can't use any orange and whites but may buy them just so Intermountain knows we want more. Dale
I offered them photos and specs of the FP's in the black and yellow scheme (Also the Katy schemes) free, no questioms asked--And they HAD ALREADY DONE THEM IN HO IN BLACK AND YELLOW! Although the yellow wasn't perfect, they didn't have to do anything extra!! I really don't care what they do now. It just looks like if model manufacturers would want to do a model at all, they would want to do it correctly...Buying a Frisco engine just because the say: "Frisco" is no better than buying a "Frisco" ball point pen or key chain. Tom
Tom, While Intermountain may have ignored your offer for help, I believe Intermountain IS one of the better manufacturers when it comes to doing research on a prototype. While they may not make perfect models, they DO make an effort to paint their models in prototypical correct schemes. One thing is certain, The Intermountain FP7s and F7Bs will be more correct than any other F-unit we can get in N-scale (the Kato F3s and F7s ALL have dynamic brakes, as does the Model Power FP7). While I would like to see the earlier schemes done as well, I'll certainly buy the Orange and White FP7s and F7Bs, because the scheme IS correct for my chosen modeling era (the early 1970s). Paul
Dale, Thanks for the information on the release, I'll be sure to get my order in to my dealer soon. Paul
I received the December newsletter from InterMountain today. In it they announced the second release of their FP7 and F7B models, as we have been discussing, in both HO and N. They will be available in a few months. Frisco is included. There will be two SLSF numbers in HO and in N for the FP7 and two each for the F7B. All will be in the orange/white paint scheme. While I'm not too keen on F-units painted o/w, the good news - if you can believe the small pic in the newsletter, is that the F7B's will NOT have the d/b fan on the roof as the ones in the first release (in b/y) incorrectly had. Hard to tell about the shade of red/orange from the pic. Hopefully, from what Atlas and Athearn have set as an example, IRC will get it close. I also hope they thin down their lettering/numbering font a bit. The SLSF units I have from the first release (one FP7 and two F7B's) run very well. Ken
Well I'm bummed that IM isn't offering an N scale Frisco FP-7 in the original black and yellow scheme. But now I'm MAD--I'm going to "scratch-detail" a black/yellow Frisco FP-7 by stripping. detailing, painting and decaling another roadname engine with the closest features to the Frisco's. I know by actually "modeling" an engine, I'll have to give up my status as an "Armchair Model Railroader." Which brings me to the question: What color, brand etc. of model paint best represents the yellow in the Frisco black and yellow road freight engine "Cutworm" paint scheme? Thanks, Tom
It is IMPERATIVE that anyone wanting one of these Intermountain FP7's or F7B's in either HO or N Scale place an order with a reputable Intermountain dealer by January 31st. It has come to my attention that if there aren't enough pre-orders, Intermountain may not produce the model. Bob Hoover FriscoFriend
I had planned to buy a four or six unit set of N scale FP7's and the companion B-units in the black and yellow, but I'm out of the running now. I'm just going to have one unit and I'll strip and paint it myself. Pre-ordering? Just to see if they "might" decide to "maybe" produce them? Not interested... Tom
I have three Atlas N Scale GP38-2s. I want to add sunshades, but what brand of paint matches the colors on the Atlas models? Jerry
Jerry: I posted a reply for you on the Yahoo loop but for you and possibly info for others in this group here it is again. There are a lot of great modelers on this listed so maybe some others will give you their secret formulas! The quote: "I use Badger Model Flex #16-157 Frisco Orange to touch up nicks, chips, etc. on my Atlas locomotives, especially the handrails, and once on a dry I can't tell where I had used it. In the bottle it looks a little red and shiny but on the model I like the result. I have never painted a large surface such as a whole locomotive with it, but it seems neither are you." Hope this helps and have a Merry Christmas! Bob Hoover FriscoFriend
Regarding matching the color of Frisco's red/orange used on its modern Diesels - I have found several colors that work for me. It depends on what locomotive you are doing, and how old/weathered/oxidized you want it to be. Also, when it was new. I'm not sure what is best to match a "just out of the box" Atlas as I have not detailed any of the newer Atlas Frisco locomotives yet. The Atlas stock shade of red/orange looks the best to me vs. Athearn, Walthers, etc. (Not that early Atlas GP7, which was awful - way too red). Several others have responded to this question on frisco.org and on the Yahoo Frisco group. I just went to my paint bin and pulled these that I have. Others have suggested most or all of them as well: o Badger Modelflex, Frisco Orange, #16-157 o ModelMaster Acryl, Chevy Engine Red, #4629 o ModelMaster Enamel, Chevrolet Engine Red, #2731 o Polly S, Amtrak Red, #410466 o Flowquil SP Scarlet Red, #RR136 (I lightened it a bit with some white and yellow) Plus, years ago (mid-1980's), I made my own blend using Scalecoat II between ATSF Red, Reefer Yellow, and Reefer White. Unfortunately I lost the blend mix(!), so I'll have to start over when I exhaust my supply. Too my eye, however, this blend looks the best to me. You might try that approach (blending) to match the color of your Atlas Frisco Diesel exactly. Fortunately, Scalecoat II lasts a long time! I have about half a bottle of my blend left. I shake it up about once a month just to let it know I still value it! The Frisco, and EMD and GE, made things difficult for us - of course! - by not being totally uniform over the years, to my eye at least. Frisco's later Diesels - GP40-2, SD40-2, SD38-2, GP50 3100, looked "more red" to me than did their earlier siblings when new. So did some of the later GE U-boats. The original color first appeared on the EMD GP35 (and DD35?) demonstrator units, and was, plain and simple, Chevrolet engine block red. Same shade as my Dad's 1957 283 cu in Chevy had under the hood, when new. This was the car I learned to drive on. The Frisco liked the way the demo scheme looked, and talked EMD into letting them use it on their GP35 orders after the first, and on the GE U25b's, also after the first order. Ken
Jerry: I hope you are not frustrated by all of the different responses that you hav gotten over the last several days about your post about Frisco Mandarin Orange. When I first saw it, my first thought was "OH NO, here we go again"! This question is asked at least once a year by someone new and it brings up the same passionate bunch of responses by the same people (including myself) about which color they prefer. It has become almost humorous in a way. There was one fellow who doesn't post anymore that got so passionate and argumentative that I for one thought he was going to have a heart attack over it. Most of us that have been around long enough know who I am referring to. Bottom line, my point is simple, look at Ken's post, which by the way in my opinion is the best one yet and choose something to try and find the color that YOU like the best. That will be in the FUN spirit of this hobby! Bob Hoover FriscoFriend P.S. This post was partially intended to bring a chuckle to all of us who have been through this before and know fully we will go through it again the next time someone asks.
