4-6-0 SLSF 417

Discussion in '4-6-0 Ten Wheeler' started by Gary L, Mar 23, 2024.

  1. Gary L

    Gary L Member

    Can someone help me bracket the date range this photograph may have been taken?

    We believe it is Frisco locomotive 417, crossing the Walnut River west of Winfield, KS.

    I would appreciate any information on that class of locomotive as well.


    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2024
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  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    During 1884, the Cooke Locomotive Works of Paterson, NJ delivered twelve, 4-6-0 type freight locomotives to the StL&SF Ry as that road’s numbers 166-177. The Frisco paid $8920.00 for each engine. After the 1901 merger with the Memphis Road, the Frisco renumbered the locomotives into the 416-427 series; the 167 became the 417. Between, 1904 and 1909, the Frisco made two changes to the locomotives. Working boiler pressure was increased from 140 psi to 145 psi. The Frisco did not change the flue arrangement, so the total evaporative heating surface remained at 1717.5 ft^2. Likewise, the grate area remained the same at 16 ft^2. The 1904 diagram book does not list a tractive effort value, but using Cole’s formula, I calculate a value of about 18,500 lbs. The Frisco’s 1909 roster book lists the tractive effort value at 145 psi with 19” x 24” cylinders to be 16,750 lbs. Using Cole’s formula, that number is 19,240 lbs. I cannot explain the discrepancy, but period Employee Time Tables use the 16,000 lbs value.

    The Frisco changed the water capacity of the tender from 3000 gallons to 4000 gallons. Working tender weight increased from 72,300 lbs to 84,600 lbs. The 91,100 lbs locomotives rode on 55.5” drivers and 28” diameter pilot wheels. The Frisco retired the locomotive during March 1915. This gives a 1901-1915 date for the photograph. It appears that the view is to the west.

    The B&B record indicates that during 1926-1927, the Frisco renewed the bridge, K501.7. The new bridge was 680 feet long, and it crossed both 14th Street and the Walnut River. From time table north to time table south:
    Open Deck Pile Trestle, two panels, 28 feet long, 11 feet high;
    Through Plate Girder, one span, 56 feet long;
    Open Deck Pile Trestle, twenty six panels, 384 feet long, 42 feet high;
    Deck Plate Girder, two spans, 71 feet long, each 43 feet high. These spans replaced the original Deck Riveted Trusses;
    Open Deck Pile Trestle, five panels, 70 feet long, 29 feet high.

    Based on the dimensions of the new bridge, it is likely that the original cut-stone piers were used.
    Screen Shot 2024-03-23 at 10.47.56 AM.png
    Last edited: May 19, 2024 at 6:11 AM
  3. Gary L

    Gary L Member

    Thank you so much!

    Two of the original three piers are still standing, but the mid-stream pier is now completely in the water, a victim I believe, of the 1998 flood.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2024
  4. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member


    I do not have any explanations as to why the discrepancy, but that engine in the picture has 8 drivers.

    That indicates to me it is not one of the 4-6-0s.

    Your thoughts?

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2024
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  5. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter


    When I first saw the photograph, I thought that it too was a 2-8-0.

    However, neither the Frisco nor the ATSF had a 2-8-0 with such a locomotive number.

    A closer examination shows but 6 unevenly spaced drivers lurking in the shadows.

    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2024 at 12:56 AM
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  6. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member


    You are correct.

    Expanding the picture and using reading glasses I can see what I thought was the third driver must be brake shoes or whatever lurking in the shadows

    It looked like a driver to me at first.

    Mea culpa

    By the way, it seems to have very similar body proportions to Sierra Railroad (SRR) #3!

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2024
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  7. mark

    mark Staff Member Staff Member

    The through plate girder (TPG) spanned over West 14th Street. A TPG was used to allow additional clearance above the roadway below.

    The original Warren deck pin connected trusses (DPCT) in the photograph over the main channel of the Walnut River had a relatively tall height. The new replacement deck plate girder (DPG) spans had a shorter web height.

    As a result, reinforced poured concrete extension caps was added on top of the original cut stone piers in the river. These extensions compensated for the different heights of the steel spans relative to the wood pile approach spans above the adjacent floodplain.

    The bridge piers with extensions are visible to the south from the West 14th Street bridge and to the west from the adjacent municipal park.

    The park is sandwiched south of West 14th Street, north of the river. Used in conjunction with the fairgrounds to the north, it is the site of the annual Winfield, KS acoustic music Walnut Valley Festival. This event featuring Bluegrass and other acoustic music styles is held the third weekend each September. It runs from Wednesday through Sunday.

    Photograph of the locomotive on the bridge view is looking upriver to the west.

    Hope this helps.


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  8. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter


    Yep, the firebox is located between the second and third driver axles which mimics the appearance of the Sierra #3.

    The 417’s driver wheelbase is 13’-6.5”. The first and second axles are on 5’-4.5” centers; the second and third axles are on 8’-2” centers.


    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2024 at 12:55 AM
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  9. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Gary L,

    I have attached a copy of a cabinet card, which depicts the sister engine of number 417, the 4-6-0 SLSF 419. It will provide a better look at the 416-class ten-wheelers.

    On February 11, 1912, the Frisco placed a set of daily passenger trains, No 1280/22 and No 1281/29, in service between Weableau, MO and Chadwick, MO. The attached image depicts train 1281 at Ozark, MO. If the train is on time, it is just a bit after 11:0o AM. The low-drivered, freight locomotive was adequate for the low-speed, 25 mph, passenger operations of the Chadwick Branch, but she certainly shows her age with a wood pilot, slotted coupler knuckle, scalloped counter-weights, spoked pilot wheels. I cannot see a generator, so it is likely that her headlamp is still kerosene.
    Last edited: May 19, 2024 at 6:13 AM
  10. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The structure depicted in the original photograph appears to be a deck riveted truss.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2024 at 12:51 AM
  11. fredman23

    fredman23 Member

    If I could walk that way, I wouldn’t need the truss!

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