Zephyr Blue & Gray (or White) Paint Scheme...

Discussion in 'Heavyweight Cars' started by TAG1014, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    I'd like to revisit this subject. A while back I believe Gordon Mott was wondering if there were ever enough Blue and Gray passenger passenger cars at any one time to have a whole matched consist. I've been running a very informal "survey" from photos. Any time I saw photos of a Frisco train with B/G cars, I tried to see how many were in the train. I never ran across a train with more than four B/G cars. And that was in a train of nine cars. Summing up, there were B/G cars in many passenger train photos (From one to four), but never as many as half were Blue/Gray. One possible exception" in Arthur Dubin's More Classic Trains there's a photo of the Meteor sitting in the station with what seems to be a complete B/G consist spoiled only by an express boxcar coupled behind the engine. Also no one seems to believe that any Pullmans were ever painted in that scheme. FYI, my "survey" didn't include the Firefly and it's dedicated cars.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2011
  2. renapper

    renapper Passed away March 8, 2013

    I do not know if there was ever a complete B&G passenger consist, but there are approximately 100 car that were painted B&G listed in a booklet from the Frisco Railroad Museum. If you do not have the book E-mail me at rennapper@centurylink.net and I will E-mail it to you.
    Richard
     
  3. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks--I have it aleady. I think there's also a similiar version in the scanned All Aboard magazines from the former Frisco Museum.

    Tom
     
  4. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    I think it is pretty certain that there were never any Pullmans painted in B&G which is somewhat curious given the Frisco's effort to paint as many other cars in B&G as they did, and to paint 4500-02 to match. The Pullman Company was certainly not adverse to painting their cars into a specific railroad scheme, though they charged the railroad for doing it. Pullmans were specifically assigned, and the assignments stayed fairly stable, so it was not a situation where a railroad would have a car painted in their scheme and then never see it again. It's too bad, a solid B&G-painted Meteor behind a 4500 would have been a pretty impressive sight. I guess it will be up to someone to do it in HO if we are ever to see such.

    Gordon
     
  5. treefrog

    treefrog Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Did this good looking paint scheme last into early diesel period use? Many Thanks, Rick
     
  6. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    There were a few cars co-existing into the diesel era. Looks like 1955 was when the last B&G was repainted to Pullman green. I guess it was possible that in the 1948-55 period, there could have been a train "someplace on the Frisco" that had Pullman green, blue and gray and red and silver cars all in one train?? I think we have a photo posted somewhere here on the forum where a Texas Special engine is pulling just such a train...

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2011
  7. treefrog

    treefrog Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Tom! This was my guess but like hearing it from someone besides myself! Again much Thanx

    Ricky|-|
     
  8. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    I finally found the thread where the photo of the Texas Special engine pulling some B & G head end cars was posted. It was likely a break in run of the streamline engines on the "Will Rogers." So a modeler could run a Texas Special engine pulling the B&G cars and be "prototypically correct" OR he could run them any way he'd like since it's MODEL railroading after all...
    http://www.frisco.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10476&d=1268999103

    Tom
     
  9. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    It certainly appears that the white marker light is lit, indicating this is operating as an extra which makes the photo even more interesting.

    Gordon
     
  10. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Hi Gordon--I think you spotted those extra lights when that picture was first posted (I'm having trouble finding older posts), what was your thought about the train displaying the lights? There were a lot of photos in the day of the Texas Special and Meteor engines at Tulsa (Thought to be on the Will Rogers), do you think this was one of those or something else? The cars appear to be baggage cars, but an extra (Like a troop move) could have baggage cars?? Also would they want to use newly arrived engines on an extra like a troop or football special?
     
  11. slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger deceased)

    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger deceased) Engineer Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

  12. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    I think it might have been. I don't remeber where it came from?? Internet? Or posted here earlier, not sure?? But all the other (Mostly at Tulsa) pictures of the Meteor and Texas Special engines on the non-stramliner break-in runs were on the Will Rogers in Oklahoma. The Will Rogers was a night train until 1956 so any daylight pictures would probably been someplace in Oklahoma.

    Tom
     
  13. slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger deceased)

    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger deceased) Engineer Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    OK, thanks.

    It looks like the west end of east yard Oklahoma City. The engines and first car or two are coming off the North Canadian river bridge entering the yard. (the track closes to the photographer is the main line) The hostler would get the train at Union Station and take it to the yard where there was a wash rack. They would wash the train and then take it back to Union Station.

    This might have been mentioned before, if not new info.

    Jerome
     
  14. DanHyde

    DanHyde Member

    As an FYI, Don talked about the blue color for the Firefly being the C&O Enchantment Blue, a very close match. I found a resource for 8 oz. spay enamal of this color. It is the same as the Texas Special Red I found at the hobby shop. It is manufactured by Charles C, Wood & Co. These are paints to match the old Ives, American Flyer, Lionel , and other Toy train makers of the past. It retails for $9.00 a can. That really helps on my large scale Firefly project! If you type "Charles c. wood paint" in your browser, it should guide you there.
    Dan

    As an edit, the Spray cans are 16 oz, not 8 as I first posted. I am waiting confirmation from the manufacturer that the C&O blue is the " enchantment" blue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2011
  15. jmlaboda

    jmlaboda Member

    Makes me wonder what the Frisco would have looked like if they had retained these colors instead of going with the red... not as bright but would bet it would have made for some beautiful equipment.
     
  16. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The Frisco was worried about using blue on their new streamlined, lightweight passenger equipment and on the E's. Two other major railroads HQ'ed here in St Louis, The Missouri Pacific and the Wabash, both bigger passenger carriers than the Frisco, already had very nice LW passenger fleets using blue as one of the major colors. The Frisco quickly ruled blue out.

    Ken
     
  17. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    B&O was also an occupant of the St. Louis Union Station with blue (And gray) passenger cars.

    Tom G.
     
  18. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom - Thanks! Yes, indeed, the B&O used blue on their passenger cars and diesels.

    I'm amazed I forgot about them! - a friend's father from when I was a kid in grade school was the StL station manager for the B&O here. We had a class trip (5th grade I think) up to Springfield on the GM&O to spend a day with all the Abraham Lincoln things there in the Illinois capitol. A few hours before we were supposed to depart on the GM&O in the morning, his dad drove us down to StLUS and arranged for us to be served breakfast in the B&O diner on a B&O train that had come in a few hours before. It was great - we received royal service! Later, on the GM&O on the way up, we were given a box lunch. What a letdown from the service we received earlier!

    That day is a very fond memory.

    Ken
     
  19. mktjames

    mktjames Member

    I have seen two different paint schemes for the firefly three car set in black and white photos but what color were they blue/white, blue/gray or blue silver ? thanks mktjames
     
  20. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    The roofs and trucks were a medium gray (The Frisco called it "dove" gray), the carbodies were Zephyr Blue (Frisco's term) kind of a B&O blue (more or less) and the stripes along the sides were an "off white" (I forget what the Frisco called it). The white didn't exactly match the stainless steel sides of the Firefly engines, although the match looked pretty good in b&w photos. Just by random shuffling, there might have been a possibility of an all blue-gray-white train, but the only one close was the Meteor train in the Arthur Dubin book.

    Tom G.
     

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