Trains No 505 And No 510, The Black Gold - Denison To Dallas And Ft. Worth Via The Katy

Discussion in 'Passenger Operations' started by JimVT, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. JimVT

    JimVT Member

    My copy of the February, 1938, Official Guide shows Frisco train No. 502, the northbound Black Gold, departing Dallas at 4:00 pm and Fort Worth at 3:50 pm.

    I need to learn more about how SL-SF passenger trains operated at this time. Did the Dallas and Fort Worth sections combine at South Irving or Irving?

    There was a wye there and one engine could turn and wait for the next southbound train and take the Dallas or Ft. Worth section from there.

    Or did the trains run as separate sections as far north as Sherman or Denison and combine at one of those places?

    No 502 and 505, the southbound Black Gold, were classy trains if you go by the equipment listing in the Guide. Air-conditioned coach-lounge and coach-snack cars, dining car service and lounge car service, probably for first class passengers only, and A/C Pullmans from both Fort Worth and Dallas to Tulsa, probably sold as parlor car seats in Sections not made down for night occupancy.

    Can any member shed some light on how these trains operated, especially the "joining up" or "combining" at Irving, if it happened there?

    Also, if you happen to know, whose roundhouse in Dallas turned the SL-SF power, was it the Terminal Company's?

    I really appreciate any information as to how this service was run at the time.

    Jim VT
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2024
  2. frank462

    frank462 Member


    The wye is still there.

    As far as the trains go contact Ed Seay at MAL Hobby Shop in Irving, TX at (972) 438-9233 or (972) 579-2904. I don't think he is a member of this list.

    He may or may not be able to help you but he might be able to point you in the right direction for an answer.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2024
  3. Bear

    Bear Member

    For many years, Frisco did not operate passenger trains south of Sherman.

    At Denison, thru cars for Dallas and Fort Worth were set out to be handled by the Katy. Frisco used the Katy Union Station at Denison for passengers until circa 1950. Northward, the cars were carried by Katy trains from Dallas and Fort Worth to Denison for pickup by the Black Gold originating in Sherman.

    The Katy trains to/from Dallas and Fort Worth were separate trains. The Dallas trains ran via Greenville; the Fort Worth trains ran via Denton. I don't know when Frisco extended its passenger runs south of Sherman and discontinued the arrangement with the Katy, but someone else here might know.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2024
  4. urogers

    urogers Utah Carroll Rogers

    Jim I worked at Union Terminal in Dallas from 1951 to 1957 and then went to work for the SLSF out of Fort Worth. Retired from the BNSF in 1994. in the year 2000 I worked as a conductor on the TRE until 2003.

    From 1951 to 1957 the Black Gold arrived on track 2 at 7:00 am and about eleven we turned the complete train on the wye (Y) that was where the Reunion Building is located. The wye would hold seven cars of other trains and then we had to run around the wye with the old engine.

    The Black Gold was then put back into track two and put on steam. It departed at nine that night.

    We had 32 regular trains each day. Our turn table and round house was just south of Cadiz Street. They later built a building over that area.

    Ham Young was the day yard master and Mr. Shanklin was 2nd trick. Third trick was Mr. Cowsert (miss spelled). Olin Deguagh was daylight engine foreman. Ernest Green was engine foreman on the 2nd shift.

    Odis Sweet was the engineer, Dalton Coooper was the fireman, the conductor was Carl Nelson and the brakeman was Regnel Gary.

    Utah Carroll Rogers
    Arlington, Texas
    817 275 5099
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2024
  5. Joseph Toth

    Joseph Toth Member

    I find it interesting that the Katy fowarded Frisco passenger cars that terminated on Frisco rails at Denison.

    Much like the Texas Special in that both roads worked together. I wonder if any Frisco operated passenger trains made a stop at Frisco or Carrollton when they did run south of Denison to Dallas and Ft. Worth over their own rails?

    I worked with a T.A. Jacobs on the ATSF in Dallas from 1968 until my move to Germany in late 1976. He had worked for Dallas Union Terminal (DUT) as a switchman until he got cut off the DUT board around 1957 and then hired out with the Santa Fe.

    I paid him a visit in 1981 when I returned to Dallas for my first visit after moving overseas. He had taken a buy out and was drawing railroad retirement. I doubt if he approved of the BNSF mess just like most Frisco Folks don´t!

    I no longer have any contact with him so don´t know if he is still with us or has passed on to the big roundhouse in the sky just beyond the Big Rock Candy Mountains.

    Joe Toth
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2024

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