Looking at the man cave floor plan. Change the crew lounge to a bedroom, change the storage to a kitchen, and get a shower into the bathroom and what do you have. MY PERFECT HOUSE! I’ve always wanted to buy one of these commercial buildings with a big shop or warehouse in the back and the little office area and bathroom upfront that you would convert to living quarters. Put a kitchenette in and you have it! A perfect model railroader house! You don’t need a big kitchen. You’ll be working on the layout instead of cooking! The other ideal building would be a vacant, small church. Nice big open area, usually some bathrooms and the kitchen in the back and an office. Make one of those secondary spaces into the bedroom and you have it again! The ideal model railroader house is 85% layout and minimal 15% living area. You aren’t going to spend any time in the living area anyway except to sleep. You’ll be working on the layout all the rest of the time. You’ll notice that there’s no accommodation for any kind of female presence in these fantasy layout houses. Unfortunately, females often create less than ideal, layout conditions! I’m only talking about ideal here! Not reality. And in reality, I’m extremely fortunate to have a very understanding female, who is quite generous with space and time for model railroading.
I went through and made some revisions to the floor plan for the building. The crew lounge just looked a little too small, so I caved in and added 2 foot to the building. I also stole 2 foot from the HVAC room. The windows on the south and west side of the building are now 6' picture windows for better viewing. I'm thinking of going with solid windows that don't open to give best control over temp and humidity in the layout room. I also upgraded to picture windows in the crew lounge. I'm thinking I'm going to put my work bench on the south wall of the crew lounge so I have a good view while I work. I'm also thinking about building a paint booth in the storage closet where it'll be out of the way. I can have my builder run duct work for an exhaust fan while things are open. To make it easier to visualize, I roughed in bench work in the layout room. Not sure when they're gonna ask for the floor plan, but I'm close to having it ready to go. As always, feed back is greatly appreciated.
With a Layout that size, and all the stuff you’re gonna buy to fill it up, you’re going to need a lot more storage than what you have. Also, you really need a shop.
The space my furnace/A/C sits in is 48" x 48" but there is no room to move around it for access except from the front. The back side is removable if necessary but there is no space to get by it. I would not recommend making the furnace room only 48" wide; I would lose 2' in storage. You will have plenty of storage space under the layout if you use moveable storage units of some sort. I would put the crew lounge and the bathroom back to back to simplify plumbing. You could use one small demand-type electric water heater mounted under the bathroom sink to serve both. Don't forget a supply of water for a furnace mounted humidifier.
Ethan, Recommend eliminating the 10 windows in the layout room. Windows are expensive, require extra framing (additional expense in labor and material), increase heating and cooling expense, are an interruption to operations and detract from the railroad's buildings, backdrop and scenery. Do not forget the deleterious fading effects of ultraviolet light on paint and scenery and thermal radiation on plastics. In addition, with equipment, structures, trackwork and scenery, not to mention your two planned decks, in place windows will be hard to reach to clean from the inside. If your operating crew wants to railfan the prototype, they have the opportunity before or after the operating session. As an alternative, set up a video security camera(s) system and record any passing trains. Folks can then watch any action after the session, but not interrupt and distract from the operations during the session. If they cannot devote time and effort to your session and railroad, they may not be the folks you want to participate. How big is your local work crew to help build your railroad? Once operations begin, how many operators will be required to participate for each session? Are the required folks and skill sets available locally? Hope this helps. Thanks! Mark
I worked in a windowless office for 10 years. it does things to your mind after awhile. I have a friend with a layout in a windowless attic and I can’t stand going over there to operate. https://journalistsresource.org/environment/daylight-windows-productivity-stress-health-depression/
I will echo Mark's statement; the use of cameras and feeding to a TV in the crew lounge would be a very viable alternative vs. windows in the layout space. However, if you desire natural light, the use of flexible sun tunnels from the roof can direct plenty of light into the layout space. I recognize what Patrick is referring to vis a vis a work environment, but in practicality the situation in a layout space is not the same as in a corporate office; the layout space is an escape from reality and the stress of a work environment.
I read through everyone's feedback and made some adjustments tonight. First off, I want to reiterate something. I have some issues mentally that mostly stem from playing football that make it difficult to articulate a point properly. And sometimes, I'll do things that don't make any sense at all and I'll have no idea why I did it. So occasionally you'll see something I've posted and be left scratching your head. Just bear with me, I do try to clarify eventually. Keith is right, I need to steal 2' from the storage closet for the mechanical closet. Not sure what wires I got crossed last night, but I need to keep that mechanical closet 6' wide Originally, I had the bathroom sharing a wall with the crew lounge. The HVAC crew recommended putting the unit as close to center as possible to cut down on duct work, so I just traded places with the two. The better solution is to move the bathroom up by the crew lounge, put the mechanical closet dead center and move the storage closet down toward the entryway. It solves most of those issues. I do have a small water heater booked for this building, so both sinks should be able to share it now. I didn't have a humidistat on the initial quote for either building. I remembered to add it to the house last minute, I need to add it to this building as well. As far as storage, I've got space for 11' of shelving that's 2' deep that will allow me to make full use of the 9' wall height. That should be plenty. Now for the point we're really hung up on, the windows. So, 2 things I want to clarify: 1. The biggest reason I chose this property is because of the view of the railroad. It drives me NUTS to be close enough to hear the trains, but not see them. If something rolls by, I want to be able to just look up and see it. 2. My plan is to put up blackout roller shades. They can be mounted inside the window frame so that they don't interfere with benchwork, and come available with a remote controlled motor to operate them. When the layout isn't in use, I can block out all of the UV light from the room. When I'm ready to come out and operate, I can open up the windows with the push of a button. It's more about the view than the natural light for me. My current layout building has zero natural light in it. My previous layout space had a blackout curtain over the window full time. I do actually like it that way, and wouldn't be putting windows in this one if it weren't for the view. I still have time to think about this, I may end up cutting down the number of windows in the layout room. If the windows create a distraction during op sessions, I can leave the blinds closed. I think the windows could help create a unique space. As far as operators locally, I have a couple friends near by that may come over occasionally. I do need to start networking toward Joplin and Pittsburg and find more local guys to operate with. Maybe occasionally I could put together big crew to come in from one of the bigger cities, again I need to work on networking. I've been thinking about number of operators as I've been planning. I suppose there's no minimum, max is probably 10. An op session can be tailored to work with the size of the crowd. I'll have to think about this some more and cover it in depth on another post. As always, I very much appreciate all the feedback. Keep it coming.
Regarding operating crews, don't forget about the Frisco guys in Springfield; Ron White, Ray Wells, David Woomer, Louis Griesemer, John Study, and the others; Mike Carr (MoP primarily but also Frisco), Dave Hockensmith, and Ryan Matthews. You are close enough for an easy day trip. Also there are guys here, including Mark, Rick and me that would make an easy day trip.
In the storage room, move the shelving unit between the door and the other shelves diagonally across the room and on the wall between the door and the outside wall or on the outside wall next to the window. It looks like putting the second shelving unit between the door and the outside wall would provide greater shelf space than on the wall with the window. Either way that will maximize the accessibility of the lengths of both shelving units and still allow easy entry into the room. Provide yourself a place for a paint booth to vent outside. I would recommend making a "dryer vent" provision in the corner of the bathroom to the outside, and building a paint booth that is mobile (casters) and can be moved into the storage room when not in use. By using the bathroom, it will provide double venting if you also turn on the bathroom vent fan. I assume that the water heater you are considering is a small 4- 6 gallon electrical model since your needs are not that great. I really do recommend a tankless solution under-sink . It will be more compact and more efficient over the long term than a small tank and should cost about the same.
This is kind of what I had in mind with the term "networking". I don't have a deep contact list yet, but know you and Rick do.
I had thought about putting the paint booth in the vacant corner of the storage closet. I should have put an indicator there. Making it mobile is a good idea. I could stuff it in the mechanical closet when not in use. I need to talk to my Plumber. I thought I was getting a mini tankless for under the sink. I went back and looked at my documents and it lists a 6 gallon electric.
Overplan your shop. I did not, and I am now saddled with very inadequate work area. And storage too. You know you’re going to buy at least 300 more cars in the future. Be ready. Especially the paint venting issue. It’s in the mid 90° range mid summer right now down here on the Gulf Coast. I had the tiniest little paint touchup thing to do, just a one second hit on the rattle can. I thought I could do that inside. El wrongo. It destroyed the air in that end of the house with toxic vapors. I had to open two doors to get it to blow out, at the same town bringing the house interior from a nice 76° to maybe 88 in a heartbeat. I know a guy in Baton Rouge who has a layout about your size shown here. He has a Shop area about the size of a large bedroom. Unbelievable. This guy scratch built a few steam engines way back. He has drill presses, lathes, multiple test tracks along one side of the room. Don’t underestimate what you need for a good shop. Not a bad idea to have a little daybed out there too, for the nights you op till you drop at 4 AM. And then, closing, I can’t stand a windowless room, anywhere, either the office or at home. Can’t do without natural light. Period. I know it doesn’t bother some people but when we go and operate on my friends windowless layout on a beautiful 70° clear spring day with 35% humidity, I can’t stand being in there. I’ve bailed out of a couple of his ops just because of that. Of course we only get about five days a year like that down here, so you have to get them while you can.
Ok, update time again. After running through everyone's suggestions again, I've made more adjustments. I definitely don't want to come up short on this building. That's why I've been so reluctant eliminate the windows. The other adjustments to be discussed below freed up more space in the storage closet for more shelving. I now have 20' worth of shelving, 2' deep. It'll be 4 or 5 levels in total, I'll have to do the math on how the spacing comes out to account for the thickness of frame work to support the shelves. I really like Keith's idea of putting the paint booth on wheels. I should have room to store it in the mechanical closet when it's not in use. With this no longer being a permanent fixture, that freed up the extra space in storage. Also, if I'm not going to be in there painting, I don't need a window anymore either, so that freed up wall space. I took that idea a step further. I'm going to put the work bench on wheels so that it can be moved out of the crew lounge for op sessions. There is space to park it in the middle of the storage room. An in-swing door wont accommodate this though, so I swapped it to a pocket door.
Ethan, don't know if this helps, but here is the one I made for the same purpose (roll out of the way). It has a solid core door for a top. Hey, maybe I'll see you next week. I plan to be in Pittsburg/Weir City. -Bob T.
As I looked at your plan again, the thought came to mind, why the hall from the outside door to the layout door. Why not open the layout room door inward, eliminate that 12' 8" x 4' hall, and place a left hand entry door on the side of the building. That would give you an additional 4' for the crew lounge / work area.
Ethan here is a paint booth I designed for some of the guys here in KC. It is made with one 3/4" sheet of plywood.
That's an interesting idea. As to how it's currently arranged, that's just how the floor plan has evolved. My thoughts on the hallway are that it puts some distance between the outside elements and the layout, and it gives a space for a coat rack for guests to use as they come in the door. I suppose I could relocate a coat rack to the long hallway. Guests would have to walk past the corner of the layout into the hall way to access it. This could be a good time to discuss another issue I'm having trouble with: dispatching. I've been trying to decide where to put a dispatchers desk. The only solution I've come up with is cramming one in the corner as you come into the layout room. If I move the door around, it would eliminate the spot for the desk. I'll redraw the plans with the door moved around. In the mean time, I'd like to hear ideas for where to locate a dispatcher.
