Sulligent Water Tank Modeling Project

Discussion in 'Other Scales' started by trainchaser007, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    I made a little more progress this afternoon and cut three more pieces of tubing in between church services today. I'm glad I have a compound miter saw. I would never be able to make 85 degree cuts without it. I'm making notches in most of the pieces so that I can assemble them with nuts and bolts where they overlap. I still have to clean up the pieces with my angle grinder before I assemble them together.
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    FriscoCharlie and modeltruckshop like this.
  2. modeltruckshop

    modeltruckshop Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I wish you lived closer. I'd weld it all in exchange for meat off the smoker!!!;)
     
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  3. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    The legs are 92" long. The top is 22.5 inches sq. With the legs at an 85 degree angle, the base will be 38.5 inches sq. Would adding tubing (approx. 35 lbs.) around the perimeter at ground level, and filling it with concrete (approx. 50 lbs.), reduce the chances of the tower tipping over? The additional weight on each of the four sides of the base would be about 21 pounds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  4. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    Here's another possible tip-over solution for $2.49 each. I like this idea better than my adding more weight to the base by filling more tubing with concrete. Any opinions?
    Stake.jpg
     
  5. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Adding weight at the bottom will not sufficiently provide topple resistance. Think in terms of surface area to spread the load.
    The dog stakes will not be sufficient, especially if the ground gets wet or is loose.
     
  6. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    What I'm most concerned with is how to anchor everything so that it cannot be easily pushed over by strong, straight line winds, or easily knocked over by anything (or anyone) that could bump into it. That's why I briefly considered adding more weight (mass) at the bottom. However, when the ground is wet & soft, weight is obviously the enemy. The slightest drop on any side would significantly alter the center of gravity and increase the chances of the model falling over. In the photo below, the prototype appears to sit on concrete footings. I'm kicking around the idea of anchoring my tower similarly with a method like this: https://www.quikrete.com/athome/video-deck-footings.asp Please let me know what you think. If you have another idea, I'm open to suggestions.
    water tank 1.jpg
     
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  7. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I'm guessing that you don't want to put in concrete footing and anchor bolts. So, what about using four mobile home tie down anchors that screw into the ground?

    As to the conical base - have you called around to local scrap dealers to see if they have a weber base/lid or a Smokey Mountain cooker lid? It's a long shot.
     
  8. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    Actually, I've considered both the concrete footings with anchor bolts, and the mobile home tie downs with a 12" (round) concrete patio stones under each leg. The latter would certainly be easier to move later on. Thank you for suggesting calling a scrap yard. There's one about 20 miles away. I called them. They don't really keep up with what they have, but they said I'm more than welcome to come and look around to see if I can find anything. (I'm still kicking myself for giving away my grandmother's old burned out Weber 22" kettle grill (http://www.weber.com/grills/series/original-kettle/original-kettle-22) this past summer - to my neighbor - for scrap!!! It could have been touched up with bondo. Oh well...) If I don't find anything at the scrap yard, I will probably stack, glue, and shape Styrofoam circles. I took some grid paper and drew a 22 x 11 semi-circle. With 1"-think Styrofoam and careful planning/cutting, I could make a 22" hemisphere out of 1 panel. User "modeltruckshop" suggested covering the Styrofoam with fiberglass cloth. I'm also wondering about stuff like stucco, a thin layer of concrete, or any similar substances. Again, any ideas are welcomed.
     
  9. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    I cut the last two legs and the last three upper supports tonight. I still have to cut the four lower supports and notch all 9 pieces (16 notches). Notching has been the hardest part so far. Once that's done, it'll be time to drill holes for the nuts and bolts for assembly.
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    water tank 4.jpg
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  10. modeltruckshop

    modeltruckshop Member Frisco.org Supporter

    OK Brandon for some reason I am interested in this thing a lot.(must be the smoked meat drawing me in!!) Now keep in mind I am no engineer or architect but I have built steel buildings on concrete for about 29 years so take this for what its worth. I would not consider putting that up without a solid anchor much less with water, BUT it could be done fairly cheap and easy.
    I would for sure pour a small footer for each leg or a slab to set it on. The footers could be done with post hole diggers and quickcrete. Anchor bolts cast in place with the footer BUT if your layout is off at all it will be a real pain to change.
    To play it safe here is my thoughts. Pour four footers, one for each leg. At the bottom of each leg you need to attach a 90' piece of steel. Welded would be great but you can bolt it. It will need a hole drilled first on each side, one to bolt to your legs if you don't weld. Then one on the surface sitting on your footer. Then use some type of anchor like you see here. Both involve drilling a hole in the concrete but if you can borrow the right drill and bit (or rent) its easy. A sleeve anchor( pictured but a small one) or even better a wedge anchor is then put in and the nut tightened. They are very strong and designed for this. The other anchor would work great but takes an impact to install. Make sense so far? I hope.
    I would also suggest getting grade 8 or structural bolts for all this. The grade 5 zinc bolts that are common hardware store bolts are pretty soft. Big box stores may have them or a fastener store like Fastenal etc... Also use the 5000 psi Quickcrete.
    Hope this makes sense. If you decide to do the anchors like this let me know. Send your address and I will send them. I have a barn full. Questions????? Good luck
    [​IMG]
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  11. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    I think that's what I'll do. I would probably stand up some footer forming tubes in the post holes, then cut them off level with each other as close to the ground as possible before pouring concrete. That would give me a level base. What do you think?
     
  12. modeltruckshop

    modeltruckshop Member Frisco.org Supporter

    You are correct Brandon. The four tops of footers must be level with each other first.
    If they are off a little it could be adjusted with washers under the legs as you assemble but if they are off very much the legs won't all reach or itcwill gave a mean lean.
     
  13. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    To assemble the steel tower, I'm going to make a jig on top of a shipping pallet to hold the steel tubes at the correct angles while I drill holes for the bolts. I got the jig idea from a youtube video for building trusses and rafters. Once it's all bolted together and looks the way I want it to, I think I have a friend who will weld it together for me.
     
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  14. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Brandon, I believe you are headed in the right direction to make stable structure. As Steve indicated, make certain the tops of the footers are all at the same height and produce a level box.
     
  15. trainchaser007

    trainchaser007 Frisco Employee

    Yesterday, I changed out an electric water heater for my church. I brought the old one home to disassemble it and see if I can use the sheet metal and the sphere pattern website to make the hemisphere I need for my model. In between church services this afternoon, I used a shipping pallet, a couple of scrap pieces of plywood, a chalk line, carpenters square, scrap lumber, a hammer and nails, and a little help from http://www.calculator.net/triangle-...x=&vy=82&va=85&vz=&vb=&angleunits=d&x=54&y=11 to make a jig for assembling the steel tower. I checked the angles with a protractor. They were right on the money at 85 degrees. 20161106_163055.jpg
     

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