Question - Geek Stuff

Discussion in 'Layout Electronics' started by frisco1522, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I'll admit I'm not the sharpest light in the strand, so I need guidance on how to wire the signaling at the east end of Newburg. (Also the west end will be sort of a mirror image) where the yard lead joins the main line.
    As the diagram shows, there's a pot signal at the end of the yard lead. When the east switch is lined for the yard, this signal should be green, the mainline signal for the east and west main should be red and the diverging signal on the two headed one should read green.
    When the switch is lined for the main, the pot should be red and the two mainline signals should read green. (This is actually wrong because it should depend upon the train movement) This is a highly simplified version of how it should operate, but I'm not ready to commit for whole layout signaling yet.
     

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  2. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Don, I'm your electrical wizard but need some clarification.

    1)Below, I have posted two labeled pictures indicating my understanding of the two possible conditions. Are these correct? If not, explain.

    2) I am would also assume for simplicity, you would be using bi-color LEDs for indication.

    3) What mechanism will be used for basic electrical indication of point setting? SPDT or DPDT switch or other?
     

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  3. mark

    mark Member

    Keith and Don,

    I would advocate following the prototype for signal indications.

    The prototype is only able to clear signals for movement in one direction and route at a time. Is should be relatively simple to set this up so you do not give a clear indication (green or other permissive indication) to opposing or conflicting movements at the same time.

    Frisco's equipment is much too cool and valuable to have a head on collision or derailment from improper signal indications. Further, Don already has an "issue" with the local roundhouse foreman. No need to have more brass or the G-men in town due to signal tampering to inhibit or prevent his photographic efforts in the area.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2009
  4. mark

    mark Member

    Don and Keith,

    Might want to consider a small panel with some Rix Products control knobs. These are inexpensive and add a real prototype feel to the installation.

    Please see the following: http://www.rixproducts.com/6280061.htm

    After all, the dispatcher's office is just down the track next to the depot!

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
  5. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    What I had in mind was signal detection, etc, to make the signals give the correct indication. I have no knowledge whatsoever of what's available or how to utilize it. I don't think they had DCC back in 1943.:)
     
  6. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    What will you be using to control the switch position?

    A] Manual Control
    1) One possibility is: http://www.newrailmodels.com/BluePoint.htm
    note that there is a DPDT switch which we can use to control the signals.

    2) Another is: http://www.handlaidtrack.com/bullfrog-turnout-control-c-2087.php?zenid=kjuoo54okb3bkpgv4hboioieu3


    B] Powered turnout control
    1)Tortoise: http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Tortoise.htm

    2) Switchmaster: http://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/sm-home.html

    3) Solenoid type like Peco or Atlas

    The only "easy" way we could produce "automatic" signals based on turnout position is by using one of the control methods above as opposed to using ground throws.

    The wiring diagram is dependent on your choice. (Please note that none of what I am proposing thus far includes track occupancy detection.)
     
  7. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    I just happened to look at the thread; Newburg Update http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?p=22075#post22075

    where you identify that you are going to be using the Bullfrog Turnout Control.

    I see that you will be using the microswitch for frog power control.

    Add the optional second microswitch and we have a way to automatically control signal indication based on turnout position. I will draw a diagram for doing just such that I will add in a follow-up post here tonight.
     
  8. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    What I have powering the east switch right now is a Kemtron twin coil on a Rix vertical mount. I'm using one set of relay contacts for frog power, one set is open.
     
  9. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Don,
    Here is the diagram. The LEDs are 3 lead bicolor LEDs. According to those I have discussed signals with, the eastbound signal on the yard track would only need to have one head. Accordingly just eliminate one LED in the diagram. The power supply could be 5 or 12VDC, the deciding factor then would be the appropriate resistances for the resistors based on the LED manufacturer's recommendations.

    Note that the positive lead from the power supply would go directly to the anodes of the LEDs and the ground side would be switched to the cathode leads.
     

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