MKT in Clinton

Discussion in 'Clinton Subdivision' started by dricketts, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I hope this is the best place to post this. I have a question regarding the MKT in Clinton since I'm modeling the Frisco in Clinton.

    Does anyone know if the MKT had signals or CTC on their line through Clinton. I know the MNA (Missouri Northern Arkansas) now uses this line.

    If anyone could recommend a nice site or forum for information on the MKT that would be also be helpful.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2011
  2. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

  3. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Just joined. Thank you.
     
  4. mvtelegrapher

    mvtelegrapher Member

    Actually I can answer this, no the Katy did not have CTC or block signals on the line through Clinton, this has always been dark territory. If you want, give me the time frame you are looking at and I can go through my Katy employee timetables and let you know how the crossing with the Frisco was controlled. I do believe they had an interlocking tower at one time.

    John Chambers
     
  5. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

  6. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks guys.

    Just out of curiosity, didn't the MKT line carry more traffic then the SLSF through Clinton? This was the only way to STL for the MKT... correct?

    I already have the SLSF/MKT crossing done thanks to some info and pics on the forum. I've been working on the MKT area in South Clinton lately.

    Here's a couple of pics of my North Clinton:

    trainz 2011-10-05 22-33-27-17.jpg


    trainz 2011-10-05 22-56-38-46.jpg
     
  7. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Basically the M-K-T's "main line" between Parsons and St. Louis. Route of the Katy Flyer (St. Louis section). Crossed the Missouri River at Boonville, ran on the north bank, into St. Charles and south into St. Louis.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2011
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Traffic on the MKT was pretty close to that of the Frisco through Clinton according to my Katy modeling friends here in KC. By 1981, there were no more than three trains total per day on that leg of the Katy.
     
  9. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    So the road to St. Louis did go through Clinton for the MKT?
     
  10. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Yes, right through the middle.
     
  11. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Nice looking crossing! I love the weeds; please refresh memories of their source.

    The "Katy Trail" terminates in Clinton at the moment, so it is possible to hike or bike where trains once ran. I recall two trains in each direction on the MKT in the late '60's. It may have been fewer than that by the time of the UP merger in the 80's. A 1968 trip to Sedalia revealed a EMD conversion of a Baldwin road switcher (MKT 127) used for a Sedalia-Fort Scott local. That probably equates to 5 MKT movements per day dwindling to 3 through Clinton if the local went one way on one day and the opposite direction on the next.

    George Nelson
     
  12. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Most are from a Russian creator that goes by pofig on the Trainz forums. It can be somewhat of a challenge to navigate his Russian site. An English speaking Trainz member has created an online catalog of pofig's content. It has direct links to his site where they can be downloaded. Keep in mind all his content is of the speedtreez version which requires TS2010 or above.

    Catalog:

    http://homepage.mac.com/doug56/Assets/page3.html

    Here's a thread about his content on the Trainz forums:

    http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=77906
     
  13. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Bolshoye spasibo dlya Pofig!

    Here is a bit more on MKT movements towards Clinton. MP 17 got me to Sedalia at 12:07 PM in April 1968 (per the June 1967 Official Guide table). I was able to see an MKT westbound passing through before the 13:25 arrival of eastbound MP 16. A westbound MKT freight passed through prior to MP 14's arrival at 17:40 for the return to St. Louis. This is consistent with the MKT tables in the June 1968 Official Guide listing two St. Louis-Parsons freights per day.

    George Nelson
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2011
  14. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I wonder why there wasn't more traffic on the MKT line through Clinton in the 60's - 80's. I can understand during/after the UP merger but it was the only way for the MKT to get to one of its biggest markets. I guess competition was stiff and maybe the MKT didn't have access to a lot of big customers in the St. Louis area.
     
  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Certainly in the last decade or so of its life, the MKT line across Missouri was not in very good shape (much on the Katy wasn't), and every few years the thing would get flooded out by the Missouri River in the spring. They did have some good business along the way - Sedalia, N. Jeff City and St Charles, among others, but a lot of the route was pretty remote.

    Too bad the Augusta area wineries did not have a carload demand for bottles and corks!

    Ken
     
  16. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I see... so if the MKT didn't get past St. Charles that had to be a huge loss in revenue opportunity. Looks like the MKT just didn't get much business from the major industries in St. Louis.
     
  17. mvtelegrapher

    mvtelegrapher Member

    I will look through my MKT timetables but basically in the 1980's you had two trains a day from Parsons to Franklin, one in each direction plus the "Clinton switcher" local. You also had a few extra's depending upon seasonal grain traffic and connections from easter roads at St. Louis. Franklin was the crew change point until the MKT abandoned the line north of the river and started using the UP from Sedailia to St. Louis. Then the crew change was made at Sedalia. The crews were based out of Franklin and ran to Parsons, layed over then back to Franklin. The through train usually ran close to 100 cars with pig traffic on the rear and plenty of MRS beer cars. There was also a coal train picked up at Fort Scott from the BN that ran to the Ladue power plant just west of Clinton. The MKT rebuilt the track between Fort Scott and Clinton in the 80's and installed ribbon rail and new ties on this section. The line between Sedalia and Parsons was actually not in bad shape at the time of the merger.

    John Chambers
     
  18. Brad Slone

    Brad Slone Member Frisco.org Supporter

    For my two cents worth and bear in mind it's not worth much, from what I've read by the 80's the MKT was focusing on south bound grain and coal from KC heading towards Texas. The railroad pretty much gave up on competing for traffic too St Louis and this line was pretty much dropped to a secondary status. The exception to this was of coarse the power plant at Montrose, at least this is what I've been able to gather over the years.

    Brad Slone
     
  19. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Whoa! The MKT St Louis sub did indeed get past St Charles and did reach well into St Louis. The MKT line continued past St Charles (east) until it reached Machens, Mo, which is close to the confluence of the Missouri River and the Mississippi River. On the way between St Charles and Machens they had a large customer - the Union Electric (now Ameren Missouri) Portage plant, still there. At Machens, the line joined the CB&Q, and the MKT rode into north St louis on trackage rights on the Burlington, until they reached Baden (a St Louis neighborhood), where the MKT had their StL yard. The Katy's passenger trains (other than the Texas Special and the Bluebonnet, which came into StL on the Frisco) continued on deeper into StL on the Burlington, until it reached N. Market, where they, and the CB&Q, went on to the TRRA, and on to StL Union Station.

    There was a good article in Trains years ago about the "Katy Komet", a crack MKT freight train that left Baden yard late in the day and dashed out to Franklin and beyond on the MKT StL sub.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2011
  20. dricketts

    dricketts Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks for all the info guys. I now have a better understanding of the MKT traffic through Clinton. When did passenger service stop through Clinton?
     

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