I'm not sure how to bring this up, since my search for information hasn't produced any results, so I'll just throw it out there... I know of other railroad historical societies that are incorporated as 501(c)(3) groups. Is this group similarly organized formally? Is there any hierarchy or officers or anything like that? I'm really excited about all the sharing of information that occurs here and all the acquisitions of slide collections that are occurring almost daily it seems. I hate to be morbid, but this has led me to wonder: what happens to group-owned property in the event of the death of the person holding or storing the property? I can't help but think of how Richard Napper was seemingly here one moment then gone the next. I don't want to see the group just fade away if it could be prevented.
I've kind of wondered when someone donates slides or whatever to the Archives, whose property do the become or where are they kept? Donating images isn't a big deal, they can be kept on the server, but physical items are a different ball of wax.
Thats a great point 1522, thats why I brought up the possibility of selling the slides after they are purchased and uploaded. I wonder what purpose is there in keeping the physical slides, and who owns the ones purchased with donated money? Its a legit question and if the purchased slides were sold it would free up more money for additional undiscovered slides.
Good questions guys and I don't mind addressing this at all. As I referenced in the other thread I have sent every slide acquired to Bob (Oldguy) who lives in Missouri. He says at some point he will have to return them to me. I can store them in the short term. As I stated in the other thread, I don't have any particular need to have slides but they need to be kept safe and not get lost somehow, although the only way they can be shared with everyone is digitally. Digitally is good for me because I can look at them on a computer. I don't own a slide projector, scanner, or any other device to be able to look at a slide. I understand that there could be concerns when you donate money about what is happening and accountability would be expected. What we are doing is simply holding onto the slides and saying that they are property of Frisco.org. There is no particular disposition planed for them as scanning and posting is the main objective. We are not a 501(c)(3) or other comparable organization for tax purposes. We are more like a group of friends who are banding together to accomplish a goal with the understanding of what will and won't happen. What won't happen is anyone putting money in their pockets or selling slides and pocketing money. What will happen is the posting of a lot of images for the next couple of years. When Bob returns the slides to me we will figure out who the next caretaker would be (Keith or Chris probably or some other person that is designated as a staff member of the site) and I will label them with an address to be sent to in the event of my demise. My wife is well aware of this project and knows what it is all about and she would move them to the intended destination if I were to kick off. If something were to happen to both of us, they will be labeled and this would tell someone what to do with them. Someday I will not be the leader of this site and it will be important to choose a new leader at that point who also has the best interest of the site in mind (as Mike did and I do) and that person would probably become the keeper of the slides. I hope this has answered the inquiry appropriately. If not, post away. Charlie
Okay, that does answer the question as to who or what entity owns the property. I guess the next question is, should this group have some official status? This has come up for me on a personal level here in my area. I am involved in a couple model railroad groups: one is a loose affiliation of like-minded individuals and the other is starting off as a non-profit with officers, bylaws, and so on. The loose affiliation, North Texas Free-mo, started off without any group-owned property or bylaws, officers, etc. but eventually we ended up with a large group-owned module. So far, there has been no issues as far as who-owns-what is concerned and this group-owned property is kept between several close friends. The other group, the Cowtown Model Railroad Club, is still at the very beginning of the formation process and has yet to approve bylaws, elect officers or anything else. Since we all rent a space to set our modules up on a regular basis, getting this legal and formal stuff sorted out is a priority for us. I've also had another experience that might shed some light on how I think about some groups such as this. Years ago a call was put out on the Southern Railway Yahoo! Group for assistance with gathering data and measurements on the iconic Southern Railway bay window caboose. Although I never directly dealt with the Southern Railway Historical Association, the way I understood it they had some drawings for this caboose and weren't exactly willing to share the drawings with a manufacturer who wanted to make these cabooses in HO scale. A couple dedicated modelers took tons of photos and measurements and sent me a large parcel of all this data which I used to generate CAD drawings of the caboose. The end result was an accurate model of the caboose was produced in spite of the historical society's participation when it easily could have been as a result of its participation. Clearly, this group has an active group of generous people who are always willing to share. I've enjoyed the benefits of this generosity from more than a handful of people here and I'd like to return the favor with my own generosity. I've donated toward the acquisition of slides and as soon as we get out of the slow time at the railroad here in Texas I will gladly donate again. But more than this immediate reward of more material for more donations (and I hate to simplify here; it really demeans what great work you guys are doing for the preservation of this fallen flag), I am interested in the legacy of the railroad I've become part of (in its afterlife, so to speak) continuing on. Much like the loose affiliation I have with my close friends in North Texas Free-mo, this group is bound by a common interest and a collective goodwill. This is more important than any bylaws or officers or dues or anything like that. Without that common interest there isn't much else. If this is much ado about nothing, I apologize. I only want to see the Frisco legacy carry on. Thanks for indulging my questions and for the discussion.
Even a duly elected officer or board member could die or abscond with the treasury! The less formal the better! Some of these modeling and fan societies get devoured by bureaucracy and petty in-fighting. Frisco-Dot-Org seems to be rolling along just fine without by-laws or "Roberts' Rules of Order!" My opinion... TAG 1014
You make an excellent point. From what I understand, the Rock Island Technical Society has been going through some rough times and they have officers and a president and all that. Clearly, there is no sure-fire way to insulate from corruption.
I agree also that we are doing fine as we are. I feel that Charlies plan for safeguarding the slides will work quite well. I also feel that we should retain the slides themselves in case of future need. Robert
Well, if this was covered last year, I was unable to find any reference to it in my searches. If you could point me to the discussion and whatever resolution the group came to, I'd like to read it for myself.
It's no problem. This is a good time to discuss this and it is a fair question. I have no issues with anyone asking because a bunch of people have donated $100 and if I donated that much money to someone I didn't know that well, I would have some natural apprehension. What Roger is saying is that this discussion has come around in one form or another a few times here. I believe it did last year although I am not going to bother digging that thread up. I have been on the boards of directors of more than one organization. Some thrived and some went belly up eventually. I have been on the board of one 501(c)(3) historical society (back in the 1990s). All of you know that at one time there was a Frisco Museum. I imagine most of you (like me) were members. That went defunct (unfortunately) and I am sure it was a 501(c)(3). We are (for the purposes of explanation) just a bunch of friends here that have common interests and will (or will not) band together as necessary to accomplish our goals. We are a web site and a discussion forum. We are not an organized group (other than what you see here). Some people would want it to stay that way. No problem there because it appears to work. On the other hand, some people would like to see a Frisco Historical Society. I am not opposed to that either. I am for whatever will best preserve the history of the railroad that we all love so much that most of us come here every day, or multiple times each week. The problem is that to create that it takes a bunch of work and is an ongoing thing with a board of directors and meetings. My problem is that I live in Maine, which is (unfortunately) a long way from Frisco-country. If I lived in Missouri or somewhere in the Midwest I might try to organize occasional gatherings and I would certainly travel across Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc., to meet you folks and enjoy coffee or a meal. If someone thinks they can make that happen, I will throw my support behind it 100%! Again, asking the question(s) is no problem for me guys. I'm all for a healthy discussion. Charlie
Mike, Charlie, Keith, Chris and the other folks that run this site. Thank you! You don't get enough credit for the stuff you do.. Many thanks to you all!!
Howdy folks, I think it is important to incorporate and seek protection from taxation when it becomes necessary. At this point, we don't have any tax issues, so... The only real benefit I see is that donations could be written off the contributor's taxes. I have written a 501c3 for a train club, which has physical assets, sells memorabilia and seeks large donations for building materials and operating cash. The club needs tax exempt status to stay afloat. I don't think we do. We discussed this at length at one of our conventions and the majority seemed to like it the way it is. No board of directors or officers, but simply one or two guys running a website sharing the love for the Frisco. It takes a tremendous amount of energy and devotion to make a hobby corporation work. We have all seen what happens when one man's passion becomes unmanagable. i think we still suffer from that a bit, too. Many assets were either lost or have become unavailable to us folks. If assets become an issue, or if we became a museum (heaven forbid) then we should seek tax exemption under 501c3, IMHO. I love they way Charlie has taken the lead and keeps Frisco.org going. I have known him since the mid 90's and really trust his leadership. Thanks Charlie! Great job. A good way to take care of assets is to donate or transfer them to a physical museum in Missouri, Kansas, or Oklahoma. Perhaps that is worth pursuing if folks are really concerned. Most of our interests are in the virtual world of digital copies of texts and images. Happy rails, Mike Corley
No doubt the guys running this site are doing an outstanding job, it is just awesome, I love it. I am not concerned with who holds the purchased slides after they are posted but I still would like to know what is the benefit in keeping them instead of selling them and perpetuating the donated funds? Someone please enlighten me on this matter. Once they are digitized they can be saved by disc or card or other means so what can the original slide do that the digital version cannot? Thanks for your input, I have never owned a slide so I'm not that familiar with them. Paul
The problem is if we donate or transfer the slides or anything else to a museum or other organization they may decide to sell them or otherwise dispose of them.
Here's the thread. GS http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?4088-Frisco-Historical-Society&highlight=historical+society
