Need a couple Frisco heavyweights?

Ranma, My name is Brian Waller, I am the one who has been leaving messeges on your profile. I am the President of The Eureka Springs & North Arkansas Railroad Historical & Restoration Society and the President of this Railroad Museum located near Eureka Springs, Arkansas that is willing to take these Frisco heavyweights Cars. You ask "is this guy real?" Yes I am real. You can ask anyone here about me. You also ask "does anyone know about The Eureka Springs & North Arkansas Railroad?" Well if you visit my website you will know anything about this railroad. The link to my website is below my name. The Reason why I want you to talk to Ark Wrecking is because you are closer to them than I am. If you want any more information me, please go ahead and ask.

Brian Waller
President of The Eureka Springs & North Arkansas Railroad Historical & Restoration Society and Railroad Museum.

 

Hi Brian

Sorry about that, one can just not be too careful these days. I called Ark Wrecking and talked to a Chris Morgan and he talked to the boss. Unless you can move them and soon they are headed for the torch. Chris says they weigh 80,000 lbs. The city wants the lot cleared and soon. Well I have done my part, have not a clue on how to move a 40 ton 100 foot long heavyweight passenger car. They think it would cost 100k. Oh I looked at your website and it looks nice.

Ranma

 

Ranma, I am going to need help to moved them. Can you ask Chris Morgan or Ark Wrecking if they can moved them?? If not I will have to find someone else to help me move them. Please let me know what happen.

Brian Waller

 

Brian, There is nothing I can do to help you move them. Ark Wrecking did not offer to help.

 

Ranma, Thanks for telling me. I need to find someone to help me moved them. I will save them, somehow.

Brian Waller

 

You will have to get ahold of someone who does "heavy" moves... houses, machinery, railroad cars. Cost could be around 30K, possibly less.

 

Second Inspection

30k is a lot of money to me. It is doable but these cars are in very bad condition. On my second Inspection, I discovered even more damage to #762. There is a lot of buckling of the frame due to collision. I would be worried about correct alignment after repair. The corrosion of the skin compromises the structual soundness of of the units. In event of an accident it would fold up like a beer can. To make them roadworthy this has to be repaired and that means replacing large sections of the frame and skin. It has lead paint so that is another problem. Am sure the EPA has regulations on how to handle this situation ie containment, protective suits, etc. Then the systems need to be repaired or replaced. The interiors are trashed and little remains of their original configuration. So they have less historical value. While it is sad to lose them, I do not see a viable way to save them. We have to pick our fights carefully with our limited resources. There are other cars, locomotives to be saved. Putting all of our resources in this would mean losing others.

 

Ranma, I have just called The Ark Wrecking Co., myself and I ask them about the two Frisco Railcars and they said "they can not be moved they will be demolish". Of course I forgot to tell them who I was. I don't understand why they said that these cars can't be moved, any ideas?? I haven't trying calling them back yet and I don't think I will, maybe I will call them agian, I not sure. Well I am going to try to save these Frisco Cars some how, if not there are others cars and locomotives that need to be save.

Maybe you can talk to them and tell them that I am willing to save these cars.

Brian Waller
President of The Eureka Springs & North Arkansas Railroad Historical & Restoration Society and Railroad Museum.

 

He may have a point a little research shows that these cars weigh about 70 tons. A mobile home weighs 12.5 tons and a fully loaded DC-9 dash 31 has a ramp weight of 55 tons. That is a lot of weight to horse about. Taking the trucks off of it would save about 1/3 of the weight. Then there is the condition of the cars, with their heavy corrosion can they stand the strain of being lifted?

 

Re: Second Inspection

There was a definite message in these well meaning response that unfortunately seemed to have fallen on deaf ears. CORROSION, LEAD PAINT, and ASBESTOS. Those are three ugly and expensive words that unfortunately make items like this far more expensive to fix than they are worth. By chance, I drove by the site about two weeks ago when I was in Tulsa and saw the cars and how bad they looked from the street.

I remember years ago when the joint agency Santa Fe/Frisco depot in Severy, KS was part of an auction and got no bids. Why, it was stipulated that it had to be moved off site in a short amount of time and it was (had to be) pointed out by the auctioneer that it had asbestos shingles.

My wife grew up on a farm near Severy, her dad took his milk cans down to the depot to be loaded on the train, and I am modeling that line. She actually owns 80 acres of farmland 3 miles from there and I would have loved to have been able to move it there by a small fishing pond and restore it as a summer cabin. By looking at the attached photo, I think most would agree that any attempt to even lift it in the condition that it was in would have rendered it a heap of rubble. Please note that the sign on the end had already been removed. I would have loved to have been able to be there the day shortly thereafter when it was razed and gotten one of the roof eves as a memory.

Now, why am I telling this story. If this would be today there would be cries on this loop to save it and move it to a proposed museum in Arkansas or wherever. That seems to be the current trend with responses to innocent posts people have been putting up about things titling them "Need a couple of Frisco heavyweights" and such. There is nothing wrong with dreams or the posts themselves for that matter. I dreamed about moving the depot to the farm. What is wrong is when dreams become an obsession and people just can't seem to let go no matter what they are told.

From a Moderator's viewpoint it seems evident that this trend has become very annoying and I am asking that it be stopped immediately.

Sincerely,

 

You are right, Bob. Sometimes, photos are the best you can do, and better to remember " what was", not what is.
Dan

 

As someone who has personal knowledge of saving and restoring depots and other large railroad equipment, my opionion is that both of these cars are no longer able to be saved without spending way more than they are worth. The organization I'm currently president of has restored two wooden depots that were in worse shape than the Severy depot shows in the photo, but we had LOTS of help and the funds to finish the projects before we started. We have looked at these cars and have decided to not pursue saving them. I'm actually more upset that they are tearing the depot down. As a former Midland Valley station it is very rare and maybe the only wood example left from this company. A building, even in rough shape, is easier to restore and has more of a chance for a new use than any rolling stock. It is just sad that this community let these items get into the shape they are in. This is a good example of what not to do and if you know of a situation like this in your community, get involved before something like this happens.


John Chambers
President, Heart of the Heartlands

 

John,

Thank you for your expert assessment and your voice of reason regarding this equipment.

Over the last few months we've had a few website posters voice their intention (numerous times) to "save" Frisco equipment from the torch or the scrap heap. These posters appear to have good intentions and a great deal of emotion but they have no experience, no money and no help to undertake such a monumental task. Intentions and emotions mean absolutely nothing in matters such as these and the results speak for themselves.

In my opinion, these posts do no harm to the website but they do dilute the meaningful content. The biggest observation about these posts is the level of inexperience of these posters. I recommend that if someone spots a piece of Frisco history that might be worth saving, they contact John Chambers through a private message for a reality check. That keeps a lot of "noise" off of the website, gives the poster a real assessment of the situation and, maybe, the posters will learn just how difficult and expensive it is to acquire, move, restore and maintain these pieces of equipment. Any one of those functions is difficult, let alone all four.

So that's my opinion and my request. John, you will have to let us know if you are willing to serve as a expert to the group. Thank you.

 

I join in echoing Rick's idea and hope that John accepts the request and he is experienced in these kind of things. Having said that when this post first appeared, the first thing that came to mind was the feasibility of moving these cars by rail over the old MV to connect with the Watco line and take them to Carona to be restored there. Evidently by reading John's first post about their condition that idea may have indeed been considered and immediately rendered unfeasible. I might add that John has personally assisted in saving one valuable piece of Frisco equipment already in helping the Texas Special Chair/Lounge Sterling Price from Pittsburg to Baldwin, KS. Unfortunately it is my understanding that it has met some hard times since arriving there.

 

Don:

I believe that a large majority of the people on this forum fully realized your intent and appreciate you doing so. As one of the Moderators, I sincerely hope that the recent "save everything at all costs" phenonemom that has hit this forum in recent months will hopefully come to a voluntarily stop. This forum has always been a place to post messages such as yours and hopefully we can find a way to maintain that in the future.

 

Does anyone know the previous number for 102989? I know it is among these but don't know exactly which one it is... [FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]1078, 1102 - 1108, 1203.
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It's not #1203. That car was remodeled to a one-vestibule "Delux Coach" with wide tinted "Solex" (Thermopane) windows. Nos. 1078 and 1108 were "dismantled" by the RR in 1964 and 1965 respectively. Car 1207 was first renumbered "11207" then again to 108029. This may be the car with the numbers scrambled??

Tom

 

While it is listed as being 102989 it could be either that or 102983. Hard to say for sure but here is the link...
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1090515

 

The photo is of one of the AC&F 1926 1200 series coaches (But not 1203-1207-1208-1213, which were remodeled to single vestibuled "Deluxe Coaches"). The 1200's had factory AC&F turtle-back roofs. The 1100's were built in 1923 with monitor/clerestory roofs with ducts added when they were air conditioned. There's no telling how (or if) the m/w numbers were scrambled. There's no entry in the SLSF passenger car historical record of m/w #102989 or #102983. Looks like a dead end...

Tom